Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education which is inclusive of but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and Our Classroom is officially in session. Welcome to Our Classroom. Today I am joined by Michael Davis and we're going to be talking about mindfulness in the digital age. Teaching kids cyber ethics and digital well being. Michael Davis is the founder of Mindfulbytes IO, a groundbreaking K through 5 curriculum focused on digital well being, mindfulness and cyber ethics.
Roberto Germán [00:00:54]:
We're with over 25 years of cybersecurity experience, including work with the US Navy, Boeing, Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Pentagon. He now channels his expertise into helping young learners develop healthy mindful relationships with technology. A TEDx speaker and PhD candidate in cyberpsychology, Michael's mission is to empower children, educators and families with practical strategies for digital balance, cyber ethics and emotional emotional well being in the digital age. Welcome, Michael Davis.
Michael Davis [00:01:31]:
All right, thank you for having me. Big fan. This is great to be on here, honored beyond honored to be here. So thank you so much.
Roberto Germán [00:01:38]:
Well, thank you for coming through. You know, technology is an important topic and there's, there's so much to keep up with because it's evolving so rapidly. And so listen, you're the expert in this area, man. I'm just a dude who clicks some buttons and I do a little bit of browsing and I use some of the tools, but I'm also an educator. And so I, I know what it feels like. I was a school principal, I was a teacher, I was a coach. I know what it feels like to try to manage the expectations and also the application for young people, but also the parents and sometimes the tension that exists there between the young folks, the parents and the teachers. Parties might want all different things, right? And even when we want some of the same things, it might be trouble to executed well.
Roberto Germán [00:02:29]:
And so I'm hopeful to learn from you in terms of what are some things that we need to be aware of. What are some strategies that we can implement. How can we as educators, as parents, as community members, how can we better support our young people when it comes to navigating the digital space? And so let's go ahead and jump in, let's talk about the intersection of mindfulness and digital education because that's obviously one of the core things that you focus on and you're doing some wonderful work with, with your company. And it's shown that integrating mindfulness into digital education can significantly reduce cyberbullying and improve student engagement. That is so important. Both of those right? Addressing the cyber bullying and also improving student engagement. I'm fumbling on my words here.
Michael Davis [00:03:26]:
I get it.
Roberto Germán [00:03:27]:
But. But those are two things that are critical. What are some key mindfulness strategies that educators can use to help students develop digital self awareness and responsibility?
Michael Davis [00:03:39]:
No, that's a great question. It really is kind of the thesis of our curriculum. This question of who am I in the tech started with me. Mindfulbytes IO started with me. My own personal struggles with technology. One of the most probably simplest and most effective strategies we educators can do potentially particularly when it comes to education and technology and young minds is intentional pausing. I know it sounds really woo woo and there's some version of that that sort of focuses in this other space holistically, but we are, we're staying there. We're going to be in that uncomfortable space around how do we intentionally pause before opening up my phone before a device? Why am I even picking this device up? What am I hoping to get from this? Sort of asking deep and better questions and I think mindful bites and obviously we'll talk about this during our call.
Michael Davis [00:04:34]:
It isn't necessarily about abstinence. It isn't necessarily about pushing technology away. It really is asking a question. How can I co create better relationship to technology? How do I feel after using the device? How do I feel before I use the device? It's no different than hygiene and we don't want to make it more complicated. This mindful bites curriculum really focused focuses on in this other space that we don't get to talk about often because we're either we're ashamed or we're embarrassed or we feel like we need to know more and we don't have the right questions to ask or the right mindset or the right insight to ask the right questions of ourselves. Technology is shiny, it's seductive. We know this. It is not something that we are as a firm are not recognizing.
Michael Davis [00:05:20]:
But also cybersecurity. Even saying it out loud causes a white coat syndrome effect to people. Why did I click on that link? Why did you bring that thing in? You know, so there's some version of that mindfulness that we have found which allows us to pause before our thing that we're going to do just a little bit of a breath work doesn't mean you have to be sort of in some crazy position, some yoga position around your computer. But it really focuses in this space of how do I feel now before? Is there A difference between before I get on Instagram versus after I get on Instagram. What is that feeling like? What is that Delta? And we're helping kids and educators and parents navigate this, this curriculum.
Roberto Germán [00:06:01]:
Yeah, that's good. That's good. And one of my major takeaways. And I sometimes I talk with folks, I do interviews and I hear them say things and I'm like, yo, that's a T shirt. So I think you gave me a new T shirt idea. Mike. Stop cyber seduction.
Michael Davis [00:06:16]:
That's it.
Roberto Germán [00:06:17]:
Stop cyber seduction.
Michael Davis [00:06:19]:
Right, exactly.
Roberto Germán [00:06:21]:
That's the new T shirt, Michael.
Michael Davis [00:06:23]:
I'll take it, I'll take it. I mean, if you look at the end of the day, it's about body awareness. How do we get into our body first before we get to that technology thing? It's how we carry ourselves. I'm from the South. I grew up with a very southern grandmother who taught me manners and hygiene and posture. And so when I went out into the world and left her house to go into the world beyond her house, I was engaged with society based on what she had taught me around my emotions, how I can be, how I can self regulate myself when I'm in the store by myself and not be caught up in the kind of synergy of what society wants me to be. I just felt like I needed to, I felt empowered by her lessons. And so this sort of body awareness exercises we do in this, in this curriculum is the same exact mindset.
Michael Davis [00:07:13]:
How do we get kids to like look at a screen but also having a boundary or get into the application but have a timer set or just look at that inquiry mindset over the shame mindset. How do we get there? And so yeah, no, everything's a T shirt in my world, believe me. I can tell you right now, because this world is full of those type, those mindsets of like, I know what I need to do, I know I need to have a boundary, but I can't stop. I go into Instagram, I go into YouTube with the idea of looking at a recipe for baking a cake. But now I'm looking at dog videos and it's been three hours. So we're just trying to start earlier, start having those conversations earlier. And I think even at the K through 5 to 6 to 10 year old space, we are behind a little bit too because even pre K kids are already, you know, pressing their, their hand against the paper or some version of the thing that they think is a, to enhance the picture on that, on that. So I think there's some there's some space around all of this work being sort of hygiene based, but it really is body based.
Michael Davis [00:08:22]:
We need to get back in our bodies around this conversation of technology and how we see ourselves attached to technology.
Roberto Germán [00:08:29]:
Absolutely. And you mentioned the word emotions, which makes me think about the importance of building digital empathy in the classroom and in your case study at Montessori One Academy. And I have a Montessori background. I was part of the founding team in a Montessori school in Austin, Texas. So I appreciate Montessori. In this particular case study, students who engage with digital empathy practices significantly increase their discussions about screen time and emotions. What are some practical ways teachers can foster digital empathy among students and how can it improve classroom dynamics?
Michael Davis [00:09:07]:
Ah, such a great question. Honestly. Montessori 1 Academy in Albuquerque is our most aligned curriculum. We kind of show up and we're there for an hour or two a week. But there really was gentle and subtle changes to our curriculum to match theirs. And I'm glad you brought that up because their curriculum has already figured out the technology less approach to learning. There's sort of this let's just get out of the technology. Let's don't throw technology back into the classroom that originally caused the problem in the first place.
Michael Davis [00:09:39]:
So I really appreciate you bringing this particular question up. One of the most sort of effective exercises we've done in that curriculum is role reversal. Students would take kind of a different Personas on digital conversations. We also reflect that our bodies are also technology. We're not just looking at devices outside of us. Like as you and I are talking right now, we are processing data. We're kind of taking into account do I trust this person? We're leveraging feedback. All those things happen within the computer as well relative to how programs work.
Michael Davis [00:10:10]:
But we practice rewording text messages and DMS to ensure clarity and kindness is put into there. Teachers have also introduced the concept of digital body language within this curriculum with Montessori helping students to understand their tone. And I know people love emojis and but we need to get out of the space of just putting in one thing to reflect a million words but perhaps take into account we can use all of our words to express ourselves. We're seeing some data around this too that young folks are reflecting with particularly text messages. They're taking into account emoji and they're feeling sad based on someone's approach to responding to them. For example, using and this came up in a conversation within Our Classroom environment a couple months ago using the period after a sentence in a text message denotes some version of seriousness. I didn't even know this was a thing, to be honest. And so people were really feeling, were in quote unquote in their feelings around the text message based on leaving a period at the end of it.
Michael Davis [00:11:14]:
I think that's the thing we need to get. We need to really think about what are these things? How are these things impacting us? How can we become better stewards and how we express ourselves online. But this role reversal space, particularly when we're talking about kids that are not on devices and many of the classes that we teach, some of the kids are actually on three and four devices. They have an Apple watch, they're on an iPad. Some kids even have a YouTube channel. We're in this space of like looking at each other in class and we're role playing these moments. So you get to viscerally see someone interacting with you. So we talk about that.
Michael Davis [00:11:52]:
We produce like fictitious posts as a role reversal exercise so you can see the person's impact on what you said about their posts. So I think it opens up a different and more kinder and more intentional choice in how we show up online, particularly in how we communicate.
Roberto Germán [00:12:10]:
Yeah. And you mentioned that some people were getting in their feelings and that makes me think about cyber happiness and rethinking digital well being for kids. And in your TED Talk you introduced the concept of cyber happiness. How can educators and parents shift from a fear based approach to technology to one that fosters digital happiness and responsible tech habits among young learners?
Michael Davis [00:12:35]:
Exactly. I love that I ended that TED talk by stating a couple of things, but most importantly was how about you start your day with a human and end your day with a human?
Roberto Germán [00:12:45]:
I like that.
Michael Davis [00:12:47]:
How much? Zach, Another T shirt. Right. But how much can we actually focus on our screens when we're, when we're not, we're not navigating the human space. I think we need to ask ourselves how do we feel after using an app or platform? But where's the closest human I can talk to? I think one of the things that we see, and you know this as a, as a technology user, we all have this experience of using something, a device and feeling drained afterwards, frustrated or disconnected. And I think that's worth re evaluating. And we're not the only tech company doing this work. But that, that ted talk, that TEDx talk was really focusing really on. We can, we are our own happiness factor.
Michael Davis [00:13:27]:
We can, we can, we can introduce tech value that often supersede the thing that we're logging into and maybe how about we log into ourselves first before we log into that device? This is the criteria that we're trying to focus in this curriculum. Rather than just saying this is bad, we actually want kids to tell us what they think is bad. Let's talk about what that looks like. And that tennis talk was really focused around a shift and making the conversation more parent and more in the room. And make it less about shame and give give kids really, in many ways, any user who use technology more agency over the choice, why they're using technology.
Roberto Germán [00:14:13]:
So, yeah, I mean, talking about agency, one of the things that comes to mind is navigating screen time and emotional triggers. And many educators and parents struggle with setting boundaries for screen time. I don't, I lay them boundaries down. Listen, this is going to feel like a privilege around here. But what signs should teachers and caregivers look for when digital use is negatively impacting a child's emotional well being? And what strategies can help restore balance? I mean, you just finished talking about kids feeling drained, or not just kids, but users. Right? Users feeling drained after being connected to the device for a long period of time. So what's the strategy here?
Michael Davis [00:15:03]:
That's a really good question. Honestly, I hate to say it, but there's not a one size fits all screen limits type of model. What we have seen in research is that there's irritability, there's withdrawal when screen time ends. There's this increased anxiety or stress from social media interactions, particularly when it comes to politics and the things we notice in that space. And there's also really a loss of interest in offline activities like going outside. The kid of the 70s, the 80s, we're always outside now. There's not such a seductive quality to go outside anymore. And of course sleep, as you can imagine, with kids being up all night on their devices.
Michael Davis [00:15:43]:
But ideally it is. You had it, you said right in the beginning, you have a sort of a policy, you have a boundary, you have a family sort of core value around your usage in your home. But that is not. It's not common in most homes. Many kids have complete agency over their time and they have no direction, no boundaries around that. So I think obviously this is a deeper question, but the emotional triggers that show up in our real life can be mirrored online and so, and vice versa. And so I think ultimately having some time out and meaningful timeout where we don't make the screen time the enemy, let's actually make a little bit more agency and maybe more conversations around screen time around family what are we learning on screen time? If you're on screen for an hour, what'd you learn for an hour? Let's talk about that. Or if there's some school assignment, for example, that needs to be researched online, let's have a little bit of screen time for an hour and then turn the screens off and talk about within our private school sector, which one of our schools that we focus on.
Michael Davis [00:16:49]:
We created this, this pledge called Look Up Campaign. The lookup campaign is a pledge. It just says, hey, after so many minutes of being online, in our household or wherever we are, we're going to look up at each other and see each other's eyes and we're going to say, I see you in that moment. Doesn't we have to have a long eye gazing exercise? But we need to have a better relationship to. Yeah, there's an online experience, but now I see you in this human experience. And so ultimately, yeah, the screen time conversations and perhaps the lack of awareness around digital habits is where we get stuck. We're just kind of stuck in that space when we often as adults, I know personally, I've driven to places and all of a sudden I'm at exit 42. I don't know how I got there.
Michael Davis [00:17:35]:
I was in some other world. Was that safe? I don't know. I can't tell you. I was drifting in some other world with that. So we're trying to, I think part of our curriculum is, and large part of our curriculum is to just have these breaking moments, these moments where we, we kind of take a little break. Okay, what just happened? How am I feeling? Am I. This is an emotional check in with myself and I can go back to that thing, but let me, after that I'm going to go back and do a check in and ultimately it allows us to quit the binging of things and it allows us to become more binge worthy of our own bodies versus the technology that we're consuming.
Roberto Germán [00:18:10]:
Okay, that's good, that's good. So bring back the boundaries.
Michael Davis [00:18:14]:
Yes, bring them back and bring about the healthy boundaries. Let's just talk about the weird thing. Bring back the healthy boundaries. That doesn't make kids or any one of us feel like we are, we're fighting, we're not in a war with technology, we have to co create with it. And I think that's the difference is that the, the kind of mindset that's come along and perhaps in the latest research is abstinence and get rid of cell phones, all these things. And there's Some value there too. But ultimately we need to ask ourselves, am I ready? Is my body centered and grounded enough to even use the device in the first place? And most of the times, no, we're just, we're just using it and we don't have a relationship to the thing that we're using.
Roberto Germán [00:18:56]:
So yeah, you mentioned that we should be co creating. And when I think about cyber ethics and the future of digital literacy in schools, you're doing some cool work. For example, at Rio Grande, school students applied concepts like digital body language to their tech interactions. How can schools effectively integrate cyber ethics and digital mindfulness into the curriculum? And what small steps can teachers take today to start fostering these skills in their classrooms?
Michael Davis [00:19:29]:
No, absolutely. Digital body language was a hit. I want to say that. And our pride aside, because I think that's the mindset that most of us use technology, sort of a silo effect. We think we're just doing one thing and that's the thing that we're doing. No, what you're doing over here affects us over here, and what you're doing over there affects us down here. Reason I bring this up because a lot of just as my own journey in this company, I'm hiring people and of course I'm clearly checking out their social media. I'm clearly checking out what they're posting online.
Michael Davis [00:20:03]:
I'm checking out their, their feeds. But they didn't think about that four years ago when they posted that Twitter thing or they posted that really insane post on whatever that looks like. So I don't judge them in that space in terms of how I hire them on this firm. But I look at their behavior. This is an indicator. So what were you thinking back four years ago that's going to impact this job now? So we do ask kids in many ways. We practice pausing before sending a text message to check its tone. We talk about when I say this thing in person to someone's face before posting online, those type of body language.
Michael Davis [00:20:40]:
And am I listening to my body if I send this text message or before I send a text message or before I get online, am I feeling some kind of way, so to speak, and does that misguide me in terms of what's going to be interpreted on the opposite end of this texturing Communication isn't often what you say. It's what people hear. And that's where this digital content model is really focused on as well. Cyber ethics is sort of woven in, is being woven into our conversations every day. And Internet kind of safety and essential digital literacy they speak to that, but they don't speak to how we are feeling from a holistic space. And so the things and, and the elements that we're doing at Rio Grande, particularly. You brought that up. It is, it is taken on a different vehicle because kids are now more centered and more grounded about.
Michael Davis [00:21:33]:
Well, yeah, I need to be safe online, but I also need to have a critical thinking mindset. I need to have a why personality around this. I need to have conscious user. I need to be a steward of technology more than just using it and clicking on the like button every, every five minutes.
Roberto Germán [00:21:50]:
Yeah. It makes me think about one of our norms when we're doing professional development and even when I'm doing student facing work literacy workshops and whatnot. And one of the norms is breathe before you speak.
Michael Davis [00:22:04]:
True.
Roberto Germán [00:22:05]:
And I get into the why. Like, hey, you know, nowadays we live in a society where folks are just so quick to react, especially online. Oh, you see a headline, you see a post, you haven't even read the whole message. You haven't read the whole article. You are just react. Because now many of us are wired to engage that way. We're just reacting. First thing I see, I have to say something.
Roberto Germán [00:22:31]:
Why? Why do you have to say something about everything? Did you think about what you said? Did you pause? Did you breathe? Did you take time to just breathe? Take, take a deep breath, take two, take three?
Michael Davis [00:22:46]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:22:47]:
And then consider.
Michael Davis [00:22:48]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:22:49]:
Do I really want to communicate this right now? And question like why? What, what is the driving motive to address this matter in this moment?
Michael Davis [00:23:01]:
Right.
Roberto Germán [00:23:01]:
And if you are going to address it, because that's then my follow up and like, you know, there are some situations that call for you to, to say something, you know, stand on that. But if you're going to address it, make sure you're thinking clearly about how it is that you want to communicate this message and what your intentions are. What's the end goal here?
Michael Davis [00:23:20]:
Absolutely. And honestly, it's a larger conversation, like I said earlier, and many of us want to be right more than we want to be happy.
Roberto Germán [00:23:29]:
Yes.
Michael Davis [00:23:29]:
I think that's where we struggle the most, is that we react to be right first. And it doesn't get us anywhere because it ends up being the race that you're. Is it being a race that you're the only one in it? And no one's even thinking about you like that. No one's even pressurized you like that and, but you're responding anyway. There are so many things out there in the world that entice us to respond so quickly on purpose. That's why Twitter wars exist and things like that. But it is hard to sort of navigate the space that we're in right now because it requires a different muscle. It requires you to write the email, put into a draft, and then sit there for a week, or let's sit there for a couple days, or let it sit there before you send it.
Michael Davis [00:24:14]:
It requires that level of intentionality. It requires you to ask deeper questions of yourself. Why am I even provoked by this? You know, and maybe the thing that you're being provoked isn't even your emotion. That's the question. That's the kind of language you have to like, really navigate through this. And it's, it's, it's captivating to respond. It gets your adrenaline sort of piped up when you get to be able to say, well, per my last email, you know, that vibe. But ultimately, what are we getting out of it? You know, I think that's the problem.
Michael Davis [00:24:46]:
Our self awareness has been thrown out the window a little bit. Our empathy has been thrown out the window a little bit. And how we ethically reason with our technology relationship has been thrown out the window a little bit. We're just starting earlier in these conversations. We're not waiting until the high school or middle school ages when they're already immersed in so many devices and so many things that we can't capture their attention anymore. The reason that the Internet and the things that we find on Instagram and our screen time is that in those moments, those things that we're looking at are more interesting than real life. And we're just trying to create a more interesting real life compared to what's online. And that's a huge competitive space.
Michael Davis [00:25:32]:
The biggest competitor for my business and this curriculum and all things we're doing is literally the human attention span.
Roberto Germán [00:25:38]:
Wow.
Michael Davis [00:25:39]:
If I can get past like 3, 4 seconds, captured the attention, then we're good. But then I got to maintain that attention span with this.
Roberto Germán [00:25:48]:
Wow.
Michael Davis [00:25:49]:
That's. That's the challenge with any company that does this level of work, particularly in this age demographic. And let's not even talk about the parents. That's a whole other podcast, by the way.
Roberto Germán [00:26:01]:
Wow. Well, you know, I think it's wise to start early. And we want our youngsters to develop healthy habits, to certainly learn how to use these tools because they're here and we have to learn how to use them. They're vital now in this day and age, but at the same time, we want them to approach things with a Great deal of balance.
Michael Davis [00:26:28]:
Right.
Roberto Germán [00:26:29]:
Get them outdoors, get them, get them doing some self reflection, get them engaging with another human being, as you mentioned earlier. So kudos to you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for our audience. What is the message of encouragement that you want to offer them?
Michael Davis [00:26:46]:
Absolutely. I'll say it again and I'll probably say it to the day I pass away. Start your day with a human and end your day with a human and make sure that human inside of you is also being interacted as well. Because ultimately the technology game is not going anywhere. The technology seductive quality is not going anywhere. And we can't just ban or block our way to a digital healthy space around it. We have to equip ourselves with self awareness, a real healthy dose of empathy and pausing before we jump into the deepest part of the unknown. Technology isn't the bad guy, it's also not the good guy.
Michael Davis [00:27:26]:
Technology is both good and bad. And so I think it's important to be able to distinguish and use wisdom to determine which part of technology you want to involve yourself with. We're just starting earlier, but this problem is a global collective conversation that we are having right now. So just find a single moment of mindfulness in your technology journey and if that doesn't work, then try to find two and just keep trying because it does exist. Slowing down is the first step. Breathing is the sex is also one of those steps. But recognizing that we are in this race for no apparent reason and then other two race is probably the most critical part of this journey. So I'm happy to be a part of that.
Michael Davis [00:28:14]:
Thank you for having me on this podcast.
Roberto Germán [00:28:16]:
Oh, it's been my pleasure. It's been my pleasure. So for folks who want to explore this further, they have questions, they have curiosity, and they want to learn about your curriculum. Where can they follow you? Where they, where can they learn more?
Michael Davis [00:28:31]:
Absolutely. I'm on LinkedIn under my, my name, Michael Davis or Merrick Security Solutions. My MindfulBytes IO b y t e s IO websites active and ready to be, you know, consumed in a good healthy way. And of course I'm working in my own podcast called Cyberpsychology Unplugged. And that's sort of in the kind of growing stages. So. But yeah, those, those avenues that I'm out there. And of course you can always just email me directly at michaelrrickio for direct access, but please reach out and please allow this bridge to be built and sturdy.
Michael Davis [00:29:11]:
And I'm excited to kind of connect to anybody within your audience. And again, I'm happy to be here part of this journey as well.
Roberto Germán [00:29:18]:
Hey my people, there you have it. Take a bite of mindfulness through MindfulBytes IO with Michael Davis. Learn more. Utilize the strategies. Make sure that you're setting up healthy boundaries for yourself and for those around you. Hey Michael, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Look forward to continuing to learn from you and certainly exploring your the work that you're doing not just with your curriculum, but all of it through mindfulbytes IO.
Roberto Germán [00:29:55]:
Thank you. Appreciate you.
Michael Davis [00:29:56]:
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Roberto Germán [00:29:58]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
