ï»żRoberto GermĂĄn [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto GermĂĄn, and Our Classroom is officially in session.
Welcome back to Our Classroom. Today I have Jerry Kolber with me, the co-creator and co-runner of National Geographicâs number one series, Brain Games, for which he received a Primetime Emmy nomination. Kolber and Atomic are frequent collaborators with icon Pharrell Williams, having created and produced Brainchild on Netflix with Pharrell, as well as two upcoming documentaries. Kolber is the co-creator and co-host of the worldâs most popular three-times-weekly kidsâ educational podcast, Who Smarted?, which had over 15 million downloads in its first three years.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:01:06]:
He always knew that one day he would bring his love of entertainment and disdain for outdated, one-size-fits-all education together, and Brain Games provided the first of many opportunities to show what was possible. Since 2010, Kolber, his team at Atomic, and their amazing partners have been responsible for some of the most successful and beloved edutainment programming. Welcome, Jerry.
Jerry Kolber [00:01:32]:
Thanks, man. Listen, Iâve listened to your show. I love your intros. Having you do that for me personallyâI kind of want you to introduce me before every meeting I go into! That was amazing. That made me feel so good. Like, thank you, Jerry.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:01:46]:
Stop. You need no introduction. Fifteen million downloads, man. Introduce me, introduce me to somebody. Fifteen millionâthatâs crazy.
Jerry Kolber [00:01:55]:
Weâll figure that out. Weâll figure that out. But yeah, thank you. Yeah, weâweâwe figured some stuff out with our show toâtoâto help it grow. I think we also really hit a sweet spot with Who Smarted? during the pandemic. A lot of parents wanted to get their kids off screens, and so we had a lot of growth then. But yeah, itâs been a fun journey.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:02:13]:
Yeah. And weâre going to talk about screens momentarily.
Jerry Kolber [00:02:16]:
Cool.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:02:16]:
But I just want to get into your journey into edutainment. Certainly, it has been inspiring, and I want to consider your experience with Brain Games and the other projects that you have shaped to approach creating engaging educational content for kids, which is fascinating for me on many levels. One, because Iâm an educator by tradeâright? Thatâs been my background for a long time. And in recent years, Iâve been focusing on educational consulting and content creation. But I also have three young kidsâmy kids are nine, six, and three. Actually, she just turned four. So Iâm always thinking about, like, âAlright, how can I maintain the balance?â
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:03:00]:
Right. I donât want to keep them completely off the screens because I think thereâsâthereâs some value that they could gain from using technological devices. But I alsoâI donât want them on it too much.
Jerry Kolber [00:03:14]:
Yeah.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:03:15]:
So I try to find a balance, and then Iâm trying to find educational games and educational content that I feel is going to bring great value, such as Brain Games. So Iâm interested to learn a bit about your journey, and your approach, and your thinking, and how it is you and your team are shaping this content.
Jerry Kolber [00:03:35]:
Yeah. So, I mean, myâmy journey, I would say, actually started when I was a student back in Miami. I grew up in South Florida, and IâI was very into science, math, all of that, but I really struggled with how it was taught in school. Even though I was, like, doing all kinds of science kits and Museum of Science stuff and all that stuff and reading about physics outside of class, for some reason, I justâI just didnât resonate with it in the way it was taught. And I was not a great student.
Jerry Kolber [00:04:02]:
I mean, if you told any of my science teachers from high school that I was making huge science shows for Nat Geo, they would tell you that you definitely had the wrong Jerry Kolber. Yeah. So then I got into making television, and, you know, I worked on a lot of different kinds of shows. I worked on scripted shows with Dick Wolf, who does New York Undercover and Law & Order backâ
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:04:25]:
Yeah, thatâs right.
Jerry Kolber [00:04:26]:
Yeah. So thatâs howâthatâs where my first job in TV was. Then I started gettingâmy first unscripted show was Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, the original one back in the day. And that was the first time I was like, âWow, you could actually use unscripted series to actually open up peopleâs minds and show them viewpoints that they wouldnât have thought of, and actually maybe change the way people think.â And that really stuck with me.
Jerry Kolber [00:04:54]:
And then, like, after about ten years of making kind of unscripted reality stuff, I started to feelâI was like, âHow do I marry that idea of, like, education and opening minds with science and teaching people about the world?â And between my own experiences in high school, working on Queer Eye, working withâI worked at Childrenâs Television Workshop for a little bit, where I learned how they think about educating children with Sesame Street. And I had this insight, which is, you know, only childrenâs television ever talks to the viewer. Right? So when your kids are watching Sesame Street, itâs like, âCan you count to five? Can you say the ABCs?â Right? So the showâs talking to them.
Jerry Kolber [00:05:26]:
And I was like, âWell, why canât we do that with adults?â Right? Crazy idea. But it worked. And that became Brain Games. And Brain Games was the first show where they let us really try this idea of having the show talk directly to the viewer and ask them to participate with the showânot withâyou donât need another screen or an iPad. It was just like experiments were happening in the show that youâre watching, and youâre doing them in real time. And it was really, really successful. Like you said, it got us a Primetime Emmy nomination.
Jerry Kolber [00:05:53]:
But more importantly than that, we just heard from so many families and kids telling us that they really felt like theirâtheir minds were changed by watching that show, that they started to understand how the brain works. And once that Pandoraâs box was open for me, there wasâthere was no going back to making, you know, good stuff like regular reality television or anything. Like, I was like, âThatâs it. We justâwe have to just focus consistently on edutainment and actually changing the way people learn and changing the way they get excited about things.â So thatâs how I gotâyou know, that wasâthat was how I got to where I am now. That was, you know, back in 2012, when we launched Brain Games.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:06:28]:
That's. That's great, man. And I love to hear you elaborate on the why. You know, like, what is it? What. You mentioned your own experience, but is there something else that's also driving your why behind? Hey, there's no going back to this. Mm. We open the Pandora's box, we're gonna lock in right here.
Jerry Kolber [00:06:46]:
Yeah. I mean, if you want my. I don't talk about this a lot, but I'll tell you my deeper why. I think we. We live in a world where there's just a lot of problems. Right. I mean, and I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about resources.
Jerry Kolber [00:06:59]:
Whether or not. Whether or not you believe in climate change being caused by humans, it's happening, Right?
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:07:05]:
Right.
Jerry Kolber [00:07:05]:
Like, that's. That's indisputable. Like something's going on with the climate.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:07:08]:
Yeah.
Jerry Kolber [00:07:09]:
Whether or not you believe in resources, dwindling and air pollution, you know, whether you believe in the causes or not, it's happening. And so our theory, the thing that. The thing that motivates me and my producing partner, Adam Davis, is we're, you know, we're not going to be. You know, we're not going to be on the planet in 100 years, but the Kids, People who are children today are going to be here in 50 years. They're going to be here in 60 years. And there is. There's only going to be technological solutions to our problems, right? We're not, we're not all going to suddenly change our behavior. It's just not.
Jerry Kolber [00:07:43]:
This is not how humans work, right? We tend. We tend not to change our behavior until there is a cataclysmic. Cataclysmic event. And at that point, it's a little. It's a little late. But I do believe I'm very hopeful when I. We talk to scientists all the time and researchers, and I'm actually very hopeful that all of the problems we have are going to be solved by technology. Whether it's power, resource, water stuff, it's going to be solved, but it's going to be solved by someone who's 7 years old today or 10 years old today or 11 years old today.
Jerry Kolber [00:08:15]:
And if those kids are only getting exposed to kind of mindless entertainment that's not inspiring them to learn how to think critically and explore and be curious, then we are not activating all of the minds that could be activated to solve tomorrow's problems. We have to be doing that today. Right? And so all of our. That's, that's the deeper why, for what we do, whether, whether we're talking to adults or kids, we are trying to make people think more critically and maybe inspire someone to actually go into a field where they start to solve problems, where they become an engineer or a scientist or whatever. Whatever they do, where they become part of the solution. So that's my. That's my deeper why? Because I just. I just think there's not enough.
Jerry Kolber [00:08:55]:
There's not enough media addressing. It's all. All the stuff around is so negative, you know, And I'm like, let's. Let's be positive. Let's be positive. Let's. Let's be aspirational. So that's.
Jerry Kolber [00:09:05]:
That's our deeper why.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:09:06]:
Yeah, and Iâm gonna have to sit my kids down later and be like, âHey, Jerry Kolber said, you need to solve the problems that await you. The problems of now and the problems of tomorrow. You need to solve that. So no more watching Descendants and all these other TV shows where they just sing these songs repetitively, and it drives me crazy. Iâm like, I need a break from these songs, alright? I need you to go and fix climate change because Jerry said so.â
Jerry Kolber [00:09:36]:
Well, see, hereâs the thing. And yes, look, by the way, I watch junk stuff. I love it. You know, we all got to have fun and turn our brains off. But what weâve triedâwhat we try to doâis make our learning shows as much fun as that stuff. Thatâs our secret sauce.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:09:51]:
Best way to learn, right?
Jerry Kolber [00:09:52]:
They listen to Who Smarted? for 15 minutes, thereâs a great theme song, itâs a fun journey, and at the end, itâs like, âOh, they just learned three things about something they didnât know about.â A lot of times, theyâre learning three things about something they didnât even think they could understand, right? So thatâs how I pitch the show to people. Iâm like, âLook, you are gonnaâyouâre gonna have so much fun, youâre not gonna realize youâre learning.â Thatâs what we do.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:10:12]:
I had a conversation with a buddy of mine, Manny. He owns the Royal Diaspora Coffee Shop here in Tampa. And he was asking me, like, âHey, you know, my sonâs five years old. When do you think I should get him started on basketball drills?â Because, you know, I was also a basketball coach. I said, âHey, man, you know, start him now. The earlier, the better. Just keep this in mind.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:10:32]:
Like, when youâre drilling him, try to make it as fun as possible because if heâs having fun, he wonât even think about the fact that, like, youâre going through drillsâjust having fun and wanting to be with you. And itâs connection time between the both of yâall, but youâre also teaching him some fun skill-building drills.â And so, I told him, like, âSometimes I needâI need that reminder. Sometimes Iâm so locked in on, like, âNow we got to master this drillâ that Iâm taking the fun out of it. And Iâve seen my sonâs not enjoying it, but whenâ
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:11:03]:
When I do it in a way thatâs fun for him, I see heâs more engaged.â
Jerry Kolber [00:11:06]:
Heâsâ
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:11:07]:
Heâsâheâll start doing it on his own. And so I need those reminders. So thank you for sharing that.
Jerry Kolber [00:11:11]:
Yeah, absolutely. And thatâsâthatâsâthatâs right. I mean, youâreâitâs great advice for your friend too because you getâget kids in by making it fun. At some point, thereâs going to be some hard work.
Jerry Kolber [00:11:20]:
Itâs not always going to be fun, but, yeah, you canât startâyou canât start with the punishing drills because theyâre just like, âNo, thank you.â I think that was maybe my problem in math classâit was the drills. Yeah. Yeah.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:11:33]:
Well, you know, you reach a lot of young listeners, and through Who Smarted?, the vehicle you use was audio storytelling.
Jerry Kolber [00:11:42]:
Yeah.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:11:43]:
And, you know, Iâm wondering, what motivated you to take this approach, and what unique benefits do you think audio provides compared to visual mediums? Especially because, in this day and age, you know, it seems like you need visuals for everything, but you have success. And I know you mentioned that you also hit that sweet spot during COVIDâbut thatâs, you know, thatâsâthatâs quite the sweet spot. You hit a cavity. Yeah. Jerry.
Jerry Kolber [00:12:12]:
Yeah. Listen, IâI donât buy into this thing that everything needs visuals. I think thatâsâI think there are a lot of clichĂ©s that get thrown around now, like, âEveryone needs to be a content creator. Everyoneâyou have to have visuals. You got to be on YouTube.â
Jerry Kolber [00:12:25]:
I actually believe that every project has its own rhythm. You know, every project has its own nuances. And so for us, Who Smarted? came out of this moment in the pandemic because we had just done Brainchild, which was an educational series we did with Pharrell Williams for Netflix for kids. And that show was awesome, and it was doingâit was doing well. But what we realized was, unless you were a kid who had a Netflix subscription who happened to have the algorithm recommend that show to you, you werenât going to see it, right? So it was there, but not totally accessible.
Jerry Kolber [00:13:03]:
And it just was this sort of magical moment of, like, coming out of thatâthe pandemic happened. We couldnât shoot any of the shows we were scheduled to shoot. We had all of these researchers, writers, and producers on staff, and weâd always thought about doing a podcast because the thing with audio isâitâs not only available everywhere to literally any kid or adult who has any kind of internet connection. Itâs alsoâyou can listen to it anywhere, right? You donât have to be watching. So you can be listening in the car, you can be listening in bed.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:13:33]:
Right.
Jerry Kolber [00:13:33]:
You donât need theâthe story, the visuals. And then also, with the pandemic, it was like, âMan, we got to get kidsâkids are on screens all day long. Itâs not good.â So it was this kind of magical moment. We were like, âAlright, letâs launch the podcast. Letâs do it.â
Jerry Kolber [00:13:46]:
And we were likeâwe were recording on, like, you know, $50 mics that we had at home in our closets. We were editing everything ourselves. We wereâevery, like, everything. Like, it was like three or four of us were making this show for the first six months, and it started to get bigger, and we were like, âOkay, so weâre doing this three times a week. We canât keep up with this.â You know, we either need help. So we started to build out our crew a little bit, and the show kept getting bigger and bigger, and, yeah, thatâs how it happened.
Jerry Kolber [00:14:15]:
It was just this, you know, this magical moment for us. Like, I think, you know, a lot of things happen to align. But then, you know, there came a point where, like, okay, now we got it. Now we have to actually start thinking about how to market the show and grow the show. And because it was, you know, as, you know, like, these. These shows cost money to make, and we had writers and actors and all this. At some point, we're like, all right, we gotta. We gotta turn this into a business.
Jerry Kolber [00:14:40]:
So that's when we got really serious about podcasting about six or seven months in. So.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:14:44]:
Yeah, that's great. And you mentioned the need to make it accessible.
Jerry Kolber [00:14:50]:
Yeah.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:14:51]:
Can you talk? Maybe you could just kind of share a few strategies of what you and your team have employed that you found effective in making the learning both accessible and captivating for children.
Jerry Kolber [00:15:04]:
Yeah, well, one thing that we realized sort of accidentally with audio is you don't see the characters, right. And so when we do a TV show, whoever the host of the show is, it's a person, right? They look how they look, and you either are into them or you're not into them, or you're neutral. We didn't really think about this. I don't want to take. I don't like taking. I don't. I'm not some. I know a lot of people look back and at everything they did, and they're like, hey, I had this idea.
Jerry Kolber [00:15:30]:
And, you know, there are some things that were kind of accidental. And one of those was because it's audio, you never see the host of the show. And so every kid gets to imagine that the host is whoever they want the host to be. And the magic of that for making a show accessible to kids, whether. Whether they're white, black, Asian, young man, young woman, trans, like, whatever, they get to see whoever they want the host to be. And we didn't really do that on purpose, but when kids started sending us in drawings of who the host was, like, people just. The kids would start. Every single one is different.
Jerry Kolber [00:16:06]:
They're like, some are. Some think it's a man something, it's a woman something, it's an older person something, it's a Kid, like, it's all over the spectrum. And we're like, okay, that's actually really cool, because that makes the show the host of the show who takes them on the journey. Every single kid sees themselves in that. And that's pretty magical because then you've got an entry point for any kid. Nobody's excluded based on how the host looks. So that was huge. That's probably the biggest accessibility thing that we've seen.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:16:34]:
That's cool. That must have been pretty cool for you and your team to receive those drawings and to just be able to tap into the imagination of your audience. This is. This is what they see. This is how they connect. This is what they're engaging with in their minds.
Jerry Kolber [00:16:51]:
I do the voice of the host because when we started doing the show, I was. It was like, okay, you do it. You have a microphone at home. And then by the time I was like, all right, let's cast a host, everyone was like, we can't change it now. We got, like, you know, 100,000 kids listening. It's you. I'm not an actor, but what was funny is, like, the number of people who listen to the show, and they're who I know who are like, don't realize it's me, because I do kind of a little bit of a voice. But, like, a lot of people think it's a woman hosting the show.
Jerry Kolber [00:17:18]:
I'm like, fine, whatever. As long as, you know, if you guys don't know it's me, that's great. So, yeah, but totally, totally fun. Like, we've had such a good time making the show, and, yeah, like, all that was a little accidental, but now it's. Now it's very deliberate. Now we're like, okay, we never put out an image. You know, I mean, people can look me up and figure it out, but we let it be a little. Little mysterious.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:17:41]:
Well, let's.
Jerry Kolber [00:17:42]:
Let's.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:17:43]:
Let's tap into the future of edutainment. What trends or innovations do you believe hold the most promise for transforming how children learn and interact with educational content? I would imagine you and your team talk about this or studying this research, and this to inform your approach, your practice. And so I'm curious, what are you coming across?
Jerry Kolber [00:18:09]:
You know, the biggest transformation I think we'll see is some sort of individualized learning. I think there's always enormous value to having kids in a room with a teacher, whether that's in a traditional classroom or in a homeschool with a parent or guardian. I don't think that in My mind, at least, like a future without a physical, human, adult present. It doesn't seem great because you want a real person there to help model behavior and help answer questions. But I do think that over the next few years, we're going to see AI develop to where it can offer personalized learning paths for kids. Because every kid learns differently, right? Some kids are visual learners, some are book learners, some are audio, some are, you know, and there's all these different kinds of intelligence. Some kids are more athletic, some are more musical, some are more verbal. And so if there's a way to make it possible to meet each kid with the same material, but where their strength is and how they understand and learn, that would be huge.
Jerry Kolber [00:19:08]:
Right? Because teachers, teachers don't have the bandwidth to do that. Right. People are like, why can't teachers, like, meet every kid? Like, you got, you got 30 kids in a class times six classes. You got your own life, your own kids at home, plus all of the standard standardized testing, everything. Like, teachers are already, like, maxed out. But, but if AI could help make it so that kids can actually get a little bit more of a personalized learning path without being more of a burden on the teachers, I think it actually helps the teachers and the kids and it actually makes, makes for better students. So that's where I see my, like my, as you said, my disdain for one size fits all education. I do think that that's, that could be an amazing development.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:19:49]:
Yeah, I mean, I have a disdain for one size fits all education also, and extremely curious about the ways that we're stepping into the future and how we're going to utilize these tools that are made available to us instead of fight, you know, fight what's going to happen. Right. I mean, the technology's here, AI is here. So how can we leverage it to, to better support our students? And, and I know there are, there are a number of folks in under the realm of education that are wrestling with this, that are. Some are exploring some stuff and probably onto some good things and others like anything else, you're always going to have folks that are resistant, and then you have a lot of folks that are in between. They're just not sure. They don't know. They need the tools, they need the guidance.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:20:38]:
So it's, it'll be interesting for me to see how educators might look at some of what you and your team are doing and perhaps, you know, incorporate some of that approach. And that also has me wondering what advice it is that you would offer educators and parents looking to Foster a love of learning in, in today's tech driven world. And you started to give us some advice now.
Jerry Kolber [00:21:03]:
Yeah, I would, I would go back to what we were just talking about with like drills and making it fun. You know, kids, kids love to have fun. Adults love to have fun. And we too often make learning feel like a burden. You know, there's too much homework, there's too many things to memorize. And you know, that that might be impossible to change just given the way the system is set up now. But if you can find any ways to make it fun, you know, whether it's introducing media like who Smarted? Or other shows that are, that are fun for kids or gamifying the learning process. So, you know, so instead of, you know, you have to do X, Y and Z, it's like, do X you earn this.
Jerry Kolber [00:21:41]:
Do Y you earn this. You know, like sort of having a little fun. It's amazing how if you add points to anything, like take anything and add points, even though there's no prize necessarily, there is something intuitively, like deeply primally competitive in all of us that if you can have like a little bit of a fun competition, that makes things more fun. But, you know, the biggest thing I tell, tell parents all the time is like, make sure you don't quell, you know, don't do anything to make your kids less curious. Support their curiosity. Right?
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:22:15]:
Yeah.
Jerry Kolber [00:22:16]:
And one of the challenges with being a parent is the whys. You know, kids are like, just like, why, why, why, why, why this? How does this work? And at some point a lot of parents are like, I don't know, stop asking me questions. That is not great for your kids. Curiosity. I know, I totally get why people say that. So we've, we've come up with a little thing where we've told people, like, if your kids are asking too many questions, instead of telling them to stop asking questions, have to take a little notepad or in their phone or whatever, write down their questions, and then find like 45 minutes or an hour when you can actually sit quietly with them at a computer and go on like a little journey with them and start looking up the answers to their questions. Because not only will you satisfy their curiosity, it's also an opportunity to start teaching them critical thinking about sources. Right.
Jerry Kolber [00:23:03]:
Is one source more reliable than another source who's giving you the answers? So it becomes like a learning opportunity and a bonding opportunity. So those, those are my big, my big things, like just, just keep kids curious and, and introduce fun, you know, as often as you can.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:23:18]:
Yeah. Multicultural classroom. One of our norms when we're doing professional development or even student facing work, like literacy workshops, one of the norms is lead with curiosity. And really, that's been helpful in our approach. And even for me as a parent, you know, when my kids are often asking why I said, go and research it.
Jerry Kolber [00:23:40]:
Right.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:23:41]:
Tell me what you come back with.
Jerry Kolber [00:23:42]:
Exactly. Right. Teach me. Yeah, teach me. Yeah, exactly.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:23:47]:
And sometimes they come back and the research is accurate, and sometimes it's not, and then they need to be guided. Yeah. But really it's a way for me to empower them to go and obtain that information on their own. Like, you are perfectly capable now in some situations. Not some situations. All right. No, I actually need to, you know, either provide the information or help them learn how to seek it, but, you know, wherever it's age appropriate. And I'm like, hey, go and do some research.
Jerry Kolber [00:24:16]:
Yep. Yeah, it's. It's a great way to make them. Makes them feel like not just like they're being talked to, but like they're part of their own story.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:24:25]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I like that part of your own story. You know, maybe I'll start using a. A. Go build out your story.
Jerry Kolber [00:24:33]:
Yeah, yeah.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:24:33]:
You got a question? Go. Go build out your story. That's what. Jerry.
Jerry Kolber [00:24:37]:
I love that because I. I like that. I'm going to start to be used around your house.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:24:41]:
That's right. That's. Hey, man, I'm gonna be like, who's Jerry? I'm weaponizing you. This Jerry guy. I can't stand them until they watch the show. And then. Oh, my goodness. He's great.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:24:53]:
I love him. Daddy, can we see more Jerry shows? Hey, gotta limit the screen time around here.
Jerry Kolber [00:24:59]:
All right.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:24:59]:
A little. A little bit of brain games. Jerry, I want you to give us maybe one or two sentences if. If you had. Not. If you had. What is your message of encouragement to our audience in one or two sentences? Like, obviously, there's a lot going on in the world as we know. And.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:25:18]:
And I appreciate that you. You want to keep us on a positive outlook. So what's a brief message of encouragement that you could offer our audience?
Jerry Kolber [00:25:28]:
I think telling parents and educators, just reminding them that learning doesn't just happen in the classroom. That's a thing that I think kids and parents and educators can get kind of caught up in the idea that school is for learning, and then everywhere else is something else. But really telling kids that the whole world is a classroom, the whole world is full of opportunities to explore and be curious and investigate and research, and you can connect it back to stuff in the classroom. That's amazing when you can do that. But that's my biggest takeaway. Just remind everybody that the whole entire universe is a fun classroom to explore and be curious and discover and learn new things. That's. That's my hundred thousand foot view.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:26:18]:
Thank you. Thank you. Now, if you had the opportunity, Jerry, to have lunch with anybody, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Jerry Kolber [00:26:27]:
Michelle Obama. That's always my answer to that question.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:26:30]:
That's a good pick. Why Michelle Obama?
Jerry Kolber [00:26:33]:
It's a very specific reason. Michelle Obama. I've always loved Michelle Obama. I've thought her commitment to kids and education and nutrition was very inspiring. I think she's also just like the coolest first lady we've ever had. But I also. So she started a production company with Barack, and it's called Higher Ground. They do a lot of really cool stuff, but I find that most of the work they're doing is the kind of stuff that I call sort of like preaching to the choir, where it's like, it's got a great message, but the way it's containerized is only going to appeal to people who already kind of agree with it.
Jerry Kolber [00:27:10]:
So I would love to have lunch with her because I would just want to have, like, just one lunch and say, like, listen, let me give you. I'm just going to give you, like, 10 ideas on how you can do exactly what you're doing with Higher Ground with the reach and inspiration you have, but make all of that material accessible to people who don't agree with you. Right. So you're creating entry points for conversation and inspiration for people who aren't already on your team. That's why Michelle.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:27:34]:
So what I hear you saying, Jerry, is you want to executive produce Higher Ground.
Jerry Kolber [00:27:39]:
That's pretty much it. Or at least, at least, at least give a little advice. I don't do. They got. They have some great executive producers. I just think, you know, it's one of those things where I'm like, man, if they could just a tiny tweak to what they're doing, they would be reaching like people across the political spectrum in a, in a, in a, in a better way. And I don't, I don't honestly think there's any couple who, who's doing more, like, deep work around these issues than them at that high level. So that's.
Jerry Kolber [00:28:08]:
Yeah, that would be my, My, my lunch with Michelle.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:28:11]:
Michelle Obama. If you're hearing this, if you're hearing this. Set that lunch up. And, and, and when the show reaches the masses across the political. Please remember to give our classroom credit.
Jerry Kolber [00:28:24]:
Yes. And by the way, Michelle, I'm not looking for, for, for a fee. I'm not looking to become part of your company. Just one lunch. I'll give you some advice. It'll change what you're doing.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:28:34]:
Oh, that's dope.
Jerry Kolber [00:28:35]:
She might be listening, dude. So, you know, we don't know.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:28:37]:
I don't know, man. I, I do not limit the possibilities. Jerry, thank you. Thank you for your insight. Thank you for sharing about all the work that you're doing, about things that we should be considering, that educators should be considering, should be considering, and even that kids should be considering. You know how it is that they could connect and absorb and process meaningful edutainment to inform all the stuff that they're learning and all the stuff that they're curious about so that they can ultimately change our world. Beautiful message. And, and we appreciate the, the, the insight that you shared with us today here in our classroom and look forward to not just the current work that you're doing, but the upcoming documentaries and all the other work that you and your team at Atomic will be involved with.
Jerry Kolber [00:29:29]:
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Thanks for having me on.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:29:33]:
As always, your engagement in our classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.
Jerry Kolber [00:29:53]:
Com.
Roberto GermĂĄn [00:29:54]:
Peace and love from your host, Roberto GermĂĄn.
