ļ»æRoberto GermĆ”n [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to, what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto GermĆ”n, and Our Classroom is officially in session. Welcome back to Our Classroom. Itās been a minute, but weāre back at it. Me and Tony, people. Iām excited about this one because, whew.
Roberto GermƔn [00:00:37]:
I donāt even know how long itās been. At least two years, maybe three years at this point. Probably three years since Tony and I did an Instagram Live where we were sharing our poetry and responding to each otherās content. And it was awesome. It was awesome to see two men connect in this way, to share their literary works, but also to open up and be vulnerable and break down our poetry. And I really enjoyed that experience and connecting with you in that way. So, Tony, thank you for being here. And just so yāall know, just so yāall know, Tonyā¦
Roberto GermƔn [00:01:09]:
Tonyās a lot of things. Heās a lot of things. Heās a son, heās a husband. Heās a father. So he knows about the beautiful struggle in terms of raising young children. Weāre both in it together. Heās currently a PhD student at UW Madison, in education and leadership and policy analysis. I have my masterās in education leadership, so I know the road that heās traveling, and he isā¦
Roberto GermƔn [00:01:35]:
Heās focusing on researching the impact of ethnic studies and race-based policies on teacher and leadership practices. Boy, is that necessary. And if you donāt know, he is the author of Teaching the Invisible Race: Embodying a Pro-Asian Lens in Schools. Holla, holla. Holla at your boy, Tony DelaRosa. Hey, itās DelaRosa. But, you know, Iām Dominican, so De la Rosa is natural.
Tony DelaRosa [00:02:06]:
De la Rosa is perfectly fine for me, man. I actually like it that way. I wish I was socialized to hear it that way more.
Roberto GermƔn [00:02:13]:
I love that, man. Thanks for being here, man. Itās good to see you.
Tony DelaRosa [00:02:17]:
Oh my goodness, anytime. I get it. I can get a chance to talk to another father of color in education, especially with the anti-racist lens. Done deal. You know what Iām saying? So, Iām happy to be here.
Roberto GermƔn [00:02:28]:
My man, my man. Well, salute to you for the book, man. Proud of you for the work that youāre putting in. I see youāre busy out there in the literary streets, in the education circles, making it happen. And so Iām glad that you are out there just being the voice, doing the work, engaging people in this conversation. And I certainly have a lot to learn. I know some, but I feel like I have a lot to learn. And I think your book is exposing me to some things. But Iām interested to hear you expound upon it.
Roberto GermƔn [00:03:03]:
And certainly I want to start by just staying in the moment, right? Because I read an article recently about the affirmative action ban as it relates to college and higher ed. And there are some mixed reviews, you know, and itās still early, but it seems like itās kind of backfiring a little bit on that group that had proposed that ban and brought it to the Supreme Court. And so how do you think the abolition of affirmative action impacts the fight for pro-Asian American identity, as you describe in Teaching the Invisible Race?
Tony DelaRosa [00:03:43]:
Yeah, I think, like, at first I was like, oh, there isnāt really much of a big impact yet, and I donāt think there is too much yet. Right. I think weāre still going to see this is going to be a long marathon of understanding what a repeal like that looks like after many years. Like, they just released data. You know, Iāve been following higher education scholars, like specifically Dr. OiYan Poon. Sheās a mentor of mine, right? She wroteāIām going to be bouncing off some books, right? So, yāall, resources. So Iām a resource, but also, like, this is a resource. Asian Americans Are Not a Color.
Tony DelaRosa [00:04:24]:
And this book is kind of a love letter to her daughter, really talking about a conversation of race, affirmative action, and family. Right? And the fact that sheās talking to her daughter about affirmative action already tells you that sheās thinking about the whole transcendence all the way from higher ed all the way down to elementary school. I was like, dang, that challenges me a lot because I didnāt expect that I should be having these conversations. Well, my son is three, so Iām not having those conversations yet. But with elementary teachers and school leaders in K-12, we should be having those conversations. Because when I think about, like, how affirmative action is now, that repeal is going to beāor the abolishment of thatāis going to hurt Black and Latinx enrollment, right? Of course, it hurts Asian American enrollment too. Like, we see mixed reviews.
Tony DelaRosa [00:05:09]:
Some of it has ramped up and some of it has ramped down. So itās really complex. Itās dependent upon the school. So we canāt really say all Asian Americans are benefiting from it, but itās just an āI told you soā to my Asians. And itās not even just my Asiansāitās specifically right-wing, conservative Chinese people who were the plaintiffs and supporters of the plaintiffs for Edward Blumās racist project. Letās say that. Letās just call it what it is.
Tony DelaRosa [00:05:35]:
Itās a racist project. And it just backfired, because now brown Asians like myself, Southeast Asians, South Asians, Cambodians, specifically Hmong folks, theyāre going to be impacted by it as wellānot just Black and Latinx folks, right? I think that is one point in terms of the admissions aspect of it. I think about programs like TRIO, right? Like, the TRIO program. I donāt know if you know what TRIO is. I wish I knew what it was growing up because I grew up low-income, first-gen, and I was always looking for resources to get just the social capital. When you think about, like, Yossoās work about social, political capitalāall the kinds of capitalāI didnāt really have that growing up as much as my peers did.
Tony DelaRosa [00:06:20]:
And I think programs like TRIO, which helps from middle school all the way up to college, help Black and brown youth, including Asians, ascend, right, to have to leave the K-12 experience with some social capital to ascend. Because we know that social capital is almost everything when it comes to writing your essay, whatās on your resume, how you talk in the interview, if you get interviewed for these college practices and jobs. Thatās almost like 80% of the work. So McNair Scholars, which I just learned about recently, the Upward Bound Project, right, Iām worried that itās going to hit their funding sources.
Tony DelaRosa [00:07:04]:
Because affirmative action is linked to DEIālike diversity, equity, inclusionāfunding resources, which are connected to social justice. Like, theyāre all kind of interrelated. Social justice funding relates to McNair, relates to TRIO, right? Iām worried about that aspect of it, and Iām also worried about the interpersonal. So now, what is that going to tell Black, Latinx, Asianāletās just use those three for nowāyouth about each other and relationality, right?
Roberto GermƔn [00:07:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony DelaRosa [00:07:39]:
Thatās a big question. Like, will it further divide us as a group?
Roberto GermƔn [00:07:45]:
Thatās the first thing that comes to mind for me.
Tony DelaRosa [00:07:47]:
Right. Like, Iām worried. Iām worried that itās going to further divide our group, and weāre already divided because weāre going to talk about the model minority inevitably in this, right? But it will divide us further, even if we never meant it to. Like, itās so funny. We donāt know whatās going to happen until itās out in the ecosystem and then itās impacting people, right? So now itās going to impact the relationship and the potential solidarity of these groups, and I fight for that. Part of my sub-research topic is how do Asian Americans, Filipino Americans specifically, build cross-racial solidarity with other groups? And my template has been specifically with the Black community, right?
Tony DelaRosa [00:08:48]:
I wonder what thatāif we use a metric to study this now, itās going toāitās hard to measure this, right? But like, is it going to really createā¦ what do you call that? I already felt this, but let me just use personal anecdotes, okay? This is already happening in real-time.
Roberto GermƔn [00:08:53]:
Yes.
Tony DelaRosa [00:08:53]:
So like, mini stories, because stories are sticky, right?
Roberto GermƔn [00:08:55]:
Yes.
Tony DelaRosa [00:08:57]:
I hadāI took, you know, I went to my masterās in Arts and Education at Harvard and I took an ethnic studies course, which drastically changed my perspective and why I do what I do now. But I had a group project with this homieāwell, not a homie now, but this guy named Raphael. And he was someone that I thought was for BIPOC coalition building. And in reality, I think because of trauma and harm that heās experienced through other Asian Americans in his personal life, he has mapped it across all Asians.
Roberto GermƔn [00:09:32]:
Wow. Wow.
Tony DelaRosa [00:09:33]:
So, like, he texted meāI blocked himābut he texted me like, āI hate you.ā
Roberto GermƔn [00:09:40]:
Come on.
Tony DelaRosa [00:09:42]:
Like what? I havenāt spoken to him since 2017-2018, bro. And to know that that existsāand you took an ethnic studies course with me. The outcome of that ethnic studies course was coalition building across our races and ethnicities. That tells me these policies are having that effect already. Itās like setting the trigger for some people, you know? Itās so deep, bro. And weāre just waiting to see what more is going to happenānot just in higher ed, but all throughout.
Tony DelaRosa [00:10:16]:
Not just K-12, all throughout. Because this is arguably post-higher education now, right? I donāt know if heās in higher ed, but weāre professionals now. So like, if heās seeing that professionally, this is the whole gamut, right? So, everythingās implicatedājust to round it out.
Roberto GermƔn [00:10:33]:
Thatās troubling. Thatās troubling, man.
Tony DelaRosa [00:10:36]:
And heās Black and Latinx. Like, heās Black and Latinx identifying. So, Iām like, at first, I thought he was an ally, right? And it sounded like that because he wrote for some Asian American news journalistic platforms. But to know that he still holds that trauma, that unhealed space, and then wants to enact that onto my community is just troubling. And I wish him healing, you know? Like, no, I wish him no harm. I wish him healing and wish people like him healing because thereās just so much, right? For us. I canāt evenā¦
Tony DelaRosa [00:11:10]:
I donātāIām not going to be the healer, you know what I mean? āCause I donāt have the time nor the positionality right now. But there are people like himānot just Raphaelāthere are more people like him across the United States. You know what Iām saying?
Roberto GermƔn [00:11:23]:
Heās got to want to heal also. And the seeds of trauma and hurt and division are so deep, right, that itās going to take more than one individual being the healer. Itās going to take a willingness for us to come to the table, develop some proximity, try to understand each other, and work through our issues together. And talking about issues, one of the issues that you present in your book is the invisibility of Asian American populations within K-12 education. And so it made me wonder, what are some practical steps schools can take to ensure representation of less visible groups, such as Southeast Asian groups, Pacific Islanders, and low-income Asian Americans within curricula and school policies? And I think specifically about some of my experience growing up in Lawrence, Massachusetts, where at that time, there were some Vietnamese folks, there were some Cambodian folks, and especially in Lowell, Massachusetts. I believe Lowell has the biggest population of Cambodian people in the United States after Long Beach, California.
Tony DelaRosa [00:12:39]:
Wow.
Roberto GermƔn [00:12:40]:
You know, but it got me to think, Iām like, wow. You know, Iām looking at the experience of these particular groupsāCambodian folks, Vietnamese folks in the United States, in the Northeastāand Iām seeing that, oh, snap. Like, one of the reasons we relate to each other is because weāre both coming through the mud, weāre both coming up through the struggle. You know, this is me thinking as a youngster, you know what Iām saying? And so it just made me wonder about those groups. And I didnāt know all the history and context of what those groups have experienced, but I knew enoughāeven at a young age, I knew enough to understand that their experience seemed quite different than some of the mainstream Asian American groups, if you will.
Tony DelaRosa [00:13:21]:
Yeah, just a quick note on that. I think we connected last time, but I want to just make it knownāI did get a chance to be in Lowell and Lawrence simultaneously because theyāre so close to each other, right? And so I got my training done for coaching in Lowell, I think, in that area. And then I noticed that there was a huge Southeast Asian institute or programming there. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like, itās a hub. Like, this is the hubālike, teacher programming, Asian American teachers.
Tony DelaRosa [00:13:53]:
I was like, if I get placed in Lowell, for example, oh, I know Iām going to be thriving, right? And then in Lawrence, I had a chance to teach at Lawrence and coach high school educators, pre-service educators in Lawrence High School, right?
Roberto GermƔn [00:14:08]:
And I used to work at Lawrence High. Lorena graduated from Lawrence High and used to teach at Lawrence High School.
Tony DelaRosa [00:14:15]:
It was a 9th Grade Academy, soā¦
Roberto GermƔn [00:14:18]:
Oh, I was there in December, presenting my book, brought tears to the whole 9th Grade Academy. Oh, I love it. I love it, Tony.
Tony DelaRosa [00:14:24]:
Dude, Iām telling you, and when you see my Dominican students, they were there, okay? Dominicans were there. They were also freshly there. Like, I know students who were there who were just pushed up without having the right resources to be there. So, just wanted to make that note that I know about Lawrence. I know about Lowell. But to go back to your question about, like, what policiesāI think thereās a lot going on right now. I feel like I need to give some context, and then Iāll zoom into policy.
Tony DelaRosa [00:14:53]:
So, since thatās where Iām at now. Right now, the Stop Asian Hate movement kind of grew after, you know, the murder of George Floydāduring that moment, like the racial reckoning year, right? And at the same time, Donald Trump at the time was stoking, scapegoating Asian Americans for COVID-19, which gave permission for the internal racism that people harbored towards Asian Americans to just act upon it, right? So, we had a lot of these hate crimes.
Roberto GermƔn [00:15:27]:
Yo, sorry, Tony, because now youāre saying this, and Iām like, yo, itās wild. Because now heās just picked another group and now heās focusing on Haitians and Venezuelans. Yo, this is crazy. How can people not see this and be like, this is so wrong?
Tony DelaRosa [00:15:43]:
Wrong and so lame and so typical, right, of this person. Itās like a nightmare that just never ends, right? And because it becomesāthat sets a national stage. So yeah, thereās that. Ever since that 2020 Stop Asian Hate movement arose, 2021, 2022, Asian Americans really mobilized, right? We call it a movement.
Tony DelaRosa [00:16:11]:
Right now, in my work, you know, I write about the movement through a lens of curricular policy. A lot of groups, a lot of funding got assembled. Asian Americans assembled. Sometimes they call them the Asian American Avengers. Depending on who you are, I consider myself one of them. And education was one of the top solutions when they started. When
Tony DelaRosa [00:16:43]:
When communities such as Stop AAPI Hate orgs were collecting data, they asked, āWhat do you want?ā Education was one of the top civil rights solutions, right? So I fit into that narrative. And since then, states have been publishing and passing Asian American K-12 policy, Florida included. I know youāre in Florida, but there are seven states right now that have mandates for that. And, you know, policy will not save us. Let me just make that clear. I study policy to practice, right? And I look at the policies, I read them with a critical race lens, and Iām like, well, very typical. You only include in that Asian American education policy the mandate of Japanese incarcerationālike, they say internment, but I say incarceration because youāre doing it to your own peopleāand the Chinese Exclusion Act.
Tony DelaRosa [00:17:20]:
What happened to the rest of the Asians, right, in the curriculum? You know what I mean? So when we talk about policy, some tangible things: Iām going to talk about all the levels, because now I can speak to it. Because now I coach superintendents, principals, teachers, right? I have the experience to be able to talk about all that. From a macro lens, superintendents need to be adopting these policies. I straight-up think this from a district lensālike, here in Verona, the superintendent, even when the policy did not pass for Wisconsin a couple of years ago, the superintendent of Verona Area High School where I live, he adopted it. You know, heās a Black man.
Tony DelaRosa [00:17:54]:
So, Iām not saying that just because heās Black he understood it, but he understood it. He understood the assignment. He was like, āWe needed this policy. This is ethnic studies. We need this.ā So district superintendents have a lot of power to do that, and then they need to garner some funding because it canāt be an unfunded bill. They need to put some funding behind it. Connecticut is a great case study for this. Connecticut allocated like $100K, maybe more, to at least hire a curriculum specialist to make sure this has teeth. We need a policy to have teeth.
Tony DelaRosa [00:18:26]:
Now, itās going to take some time for the curriculum to actually get created, to actually be included. So again, policy wonāt save us. Educators at this point can be adopting and weaving inā¦ I always tell teachers when Iām on tour with this book, this is for the practitioner who canāt wait for policy. It teaches you a blueprint of how to weave in poetry from other Asian American groups, specifically Southeast Asians, West Asiansāespecially with the Palestinian genocide. Weave in the emotional intelligence of this poetry into your curriculum. It could be the start of your class, it could be the end of a class. Kids can reflect on it during their advisory period. It can set the tone for a writing project.
Tony DelaRosa [00:19:12]:
Thereās so much we could do. But those are just practical things down to now as we get down to the lower level. I already jumped from superintendent to teacher, but at the principal level, the principal needs to create some systems to give it teeth. Remember I said giving the policy teeth? They need to give it teeth by advocating and saying, āOkay, educators, hereās some money for this. Here are some books that Iāve looked at from New York and Connecticut since those are the places where people are doing this. Hereās some free curriculum you can look at, you can weave in.ā
Tony DelaRosa [00:19:52]:
And then hereās some local curriculum we can create. And I have the opportunity to co-create because I know that the narratives in Verona wonāt map the same way as Middleton, Monona, or Madison. Theyāre different. So the principal needs to get involved with at least the accountability process. And now to the coach level, the coach needs to help the teacher actually implement it in their lesson plan, right? When you look at lesson plans, you need to ask: When do we ever use Asian American narratives in your STEM or math problems? Rarely, right? And if we do, thereās research about this. Dr. Soyoung Ahn, a professor at Kennesaw State, assessed the curriculum standards of the U.S.āall 50 states. She found in her research that the majority of any mandated or included curriculum around Asian American narratives happens to do with Japanese or Chinese, or East Asian narratives.
Tony DelaRosa [00:21:06]:
That tells us what we already knewāmy body as a FilipinoāI knew I was going to be omitted and invisibilized, right? So, you need to actively look and be like, this is not the whole story. This is for everyone at all stages. This is not the whole story. So what am I going to actively do about it to make sure the rest of Asia is included? Iāll stop there for now because I gave you a couple of things fromā¦
Roberto GermƔn [00:21:24]:
That slowed it in. That slowed it in. And one of the things that you said that obviously caught my attention was that we should weave in poetry in the curriculum. And so I want to model the example. Weāre going to pivot real quick. I didnāt have this as part of my plans, but we got to be open and pivot. So, you know, Iām going to hit you with a little excerpt, a little excerpt. How will they hold us?
Tony DelaRosa [00:21:47]:
Oh, yes.
Roberto GermƔn [00:21:48]:
How will they teach this invisible race? Beyond the silence outside of October and May? What if they drop one of us? Will they pick us up like a fallen soldier? Or will they stumble over a minefield and fumble us, forgotten? Who entrusted them with our spices, jackfruit, and diamonds? Will they style us windows and pick up a mirror? Will they dance a revolution? Or will they wallflower reflection form? Will they wait in the hiss, in the binary, or swim ultraviolet and upstream? Will they study our mountains and movements? Do they know us beyond a hashtag, beyond San Francisco and Times Square? Beyond the Black and white binary that flattens and binds us? Iām stopping there. Iām stopping there, bro. You went too hard. You went too hard.
Tony DelaRosa [00:22:50]:
Tony, I loveāI love that you read this because I was going to read part of this, but this is the first time Iāve had in a podcast, in an interview, that someone else read it for me. And because youāre a spoken word poet, I love hearing your voice in it. So I definitely need a piece of this clip, 100%, just to hear it for myselfāthat someone else is reading it, someone else who is not Asian American. Itās just powerful to me, man. Because you also know how to read it, because some people will stumble over some of the syntax and not actually read it the way that I want it to be read. And you read it the way I wanted other people to read it. So itās brilliant that you brought it up anyhow.
Tony DelaRosa [00:23:30]:
Yes.
Roberto GermƔn [00:23:30]:
And this piece is so powerful. We could do a whole episode on this whole piece. You aināt breaking it down. Like, youāre giving us so much to think about, so much to wrestle with. Youāre tying in all types of history there. Like, I know when Iām reading it, Iām like, oh, snap.
Roberto GermƔn [00:23:47]:
Like, thereās such intentionality in the way you frame this. You know, the line with the minefieldāoh my, oh my. Like, Iām just thinking about all the folks of Asian descent from different areas that could relate to that right there. I remember seeing this documentary on Laos, and I didnāt know much about it before.
Roberto GermƔn [00:24:17]:
And the documentary was talking about essentially a minefield thatās still there from all this time after. And 100%. Yo, I was like, I didnāt know.
Tony DelaRosa [00:24:31]:
I didnāt know either, honestly, until the last two years.
Roberto GermƔn [00:24:37]:
How cruel can humanity be? And how much have these people suffered? And so, respect for the way you frame this and for using poetry as a vehicle to address real and deep issues and for pushing us. For pushing us to see beyond the surface-level stuff, right? To not look at any particular group and see them, right, as invisibleāpun intendedābut to be able to appreciate all the diversity within the group, all the nuance within each group, all the different histories that each perspective brings with them, and all the richness. And I feel like thatās part of what this is challenging me to do and part of what your book is challenging the reader to do,
Roberto GermƔn [00:24:54]:
Right? To ensure that we are going beyond surface level, that we are teaching the invisible race, that we are embodying a pro-Asian American lens in schools, man.
Tony DelaRosa [00:25:10]:
I mean, it isāIsnāt this true about, you know, sometimes you canāt really teach something unless itās done through a lens of emotion, like emotional intelligence. One, you canāt teach a truth without the lens of emotional intelligence. And I think thatās lacking in education at large. And two, you canāt teach truth without using different modes, like poetry, right? I know that, you know, Iām taking a Du Boisian class right now, and Iām so glad Iām getting out of the ed policy worldāwhich is my world right nowāand going full Du Boisian.
Tony DelaRosa [00:25:45]:
Like, who Iām alreadyā I realized that I was already impacted by Du Bois without even knowing that Iād read his work, you know, like Souls of Black Folk.
Roberto GermƔn [00:25:53]:
The Souls of Black Folk, yeah.
Tony DelaRosa [00:25:55]:
Oh my goodness. And itās like, I see that you went macro with The Philadelphia Negro, and you flexed what you could do because you had to, because of the time period. But then you really zoomed in to, how can you really understand this community without going to the soul, right? And really, thatās why I wanted to put poetry in here. Itās very Du Boisian to understand that thereās poetry in here to really hit the soul of people, because you canāt make people visible or combatāletās reframe this. Invisibility is kind of more like a neutral term to me. You canāt combat the omission, the active act of erasing and omitting us, without going to the soul and understanding and knowing us there, right? You can see us on the census, you can see us on TV and popular culture, K-pop, you name it, right?
Tony DelaRosa [00:27:00]:
But until you really get to the soul of Asian Americans and read my workāspecifically how my work as an Asian American body impacts this workāthen you really donāt understand. Youāre only half there, right? Because the embodied experience of Asian Americans has not been captured. Or if itās been captured, itās been marginalized, right? Itās not put into the forefront. But we need it. We need it to be a national discourse, and weāre still at the beginning stages, bro. But yeah, Iām so glad that you pivoted because itās so important to really include poetry. That was one of my recommendations: poetry is such a useful tool. Itās so useful because it can be something quick, something short. You can do so much with it functionally, logistically. Like I said, you can spend ten minutes on it, or, like you said, we can spend a whole class period on it, line by line, going through the history of each line, right? What does that make you feel? Letās draw it out. Letās figure out this cross-racial solidarity of Malcolm X, right? What does that look like?
Tony DelaRosa [00:28:17]:
And that could be the entire class period. So, never underestimate poetry. As we both know, weāre both poets.
Roberto GermƔn [00:28:25]:
Thatās right. Thatās right. Oh man. Listen, man, get ready. Iām already mentally planning the next episode. Weāre going to chop it up.
Tony DelaRosa [00:28:34]:
Yes, yes, yes. We have more to talk about.
Roberto GermƔn [00:28:36]:
Weāre going to break this poem down. Thereās so much ground that we could cover, and thereās so much content to get into. But yāall need to go and purchase Tonyās book. But before I say more about the book, let me justāletās hear what youāve got to say in terms of a message of encouragement. What do you have to offer the audience as it relates to encouragement? Because, you know, people need to be encouraged during these times. And certainly your book does that in many ways. But today, in this moment, whatās your message of encouragement for the people?
Tony DelaRosa [00:29:06]:
Yeah, so, message of encouragementāI love that. And thatās pro-Asian, right? Like, I want to not just focus on all the negative, the sum of all parts, right? Thatās not us. So, the book itself will highlight moments where we had some wins. You know, the Asian American community had some wins. Obviously, there are consequences to our wins, right? Like, whoās winning? Whatās winning? I think in the last few years, weāve seen, after the Stop AAPI Hate movement really started, people really started taking a look at us and being like, āOh, you do go through oppression and racism and colonization.ā People are starting toāonly starting, though. But starting is important to have those conversations.
Tony DelaRosa [00:30:00]:
And when I go through different cities, I can already compare it, like, from 2020 to now, the same groupsāif I ask them, āHey, have you heard of the Stop AAPI Hate movement?āāpeople will raise their hands, man. Like everywhere. I mean, I do talks everywhere, man, and I can compare it from then and nowāpeople know about it. So, at least they know a reference point. And having that reference point is huge, because now people will be like, āYeah, itās important, right? Itās important.ā Thatās why you have your month. Thatās why you have your thing, right? Like, thatās why this book is. And then after that, a lot of community members, myself, other Asian American colleagues, the Asian American Avengers are producing work like mine, right? So, mine is one of many. Like, I like to highlight mine, but, like I said, Asian Americans Are Not a Color is another one.
Tony DelaRosa [00:30:52]:
Thereās also a book coming out by my friend Bianca Mabuta-Laui, sheās an Asian American sociologist, and she has this Asian American Manifesto. And thatās something Iām really excited about for next year, right? Itās really hitting at colonialization. So it really brings up its impacts on our community in sociology. Iām really just excited to see our community spotlighted. And from that spotlight, we find each other, because we were invisibilized, right? So, we didnāt even know who to turn to. But now, all of a sudden, weāre like, yo, weāre homies. Weāre homies. And then I can also delineate whoās not my homie.
Tony DelaRosa [00:31:32]:
You know what Iām saying? Like, you know, whoās not doing it in a wayā¦ Like, my dissertation will be about the tale of two coalitions. The coalition of Asian Americans who are abolitionist, anti-racist, womanist feminists, right? And thereās a coalition thatās doing it for more legitimacy purposes, right? For cultural power, to put their name out there, right? And thatās not what Iām about. So, to know that I can delineate that for people and be like, āOkay, I can put you in the right direction if you want. And these are people on the ground doing this work and have been doing this work for the last 30 years.ā That makes me excited because now that once invisibilized community, I have the privilege and opportunity to help bring them up, since Iām very public-facing, so I can help amplify their work. So that makes me super happy that I can be a part of that process. And theyāre already getting love. Like, other communities are getting the love they deserve. So thatās a bright spot for me.
Roberto GermƔn [00:32:44]:
Dope. Dope, man. And I think itās very necessary that people be able to engage with folks like you, who have that knowledge, who can point them in the right direction, who are able to offer them resources, who are able to shareālike, āYo, these are the people that have been doing this, been on the ground. You might not be familiar with them yet, but theyāve been doing it. They deserve their flowers. Their work should be amplified.ā We need that.
Roberto GermƔn [00:33:12]:
We need that. And so, talking about amplification, whoās the person that you would bring to the table? If you had an opportunity to have lunch with anybody, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Tony DelaRosa [00:33:26]:
Yo, so can I tell you something? So Iām actually going to potentially have dinner with the person I thought about. So, itās kind of like, I havenāt had it yet, but I finally got to a point where Iām about to, which makes me feel like this is freedom dreaming for me. Like, I feel like Iāve kind of made it. Within the abolitionist space, itās this poet named Beau Sia. So, I donāt know if you know Def Jam Poetry. I know you know poetry, and Iā¦
Roberto GermƔn [00:33:52]:
Some people donāt know poetry, yeah.
Tony DelaRosa [00:33:55]:
Yeah, Def Poetry Jam, from Mos Def, right? Formerly Mos Def. But Beau Sia was one of the first Asian American poets that I saw back in undergrad in, like, 2007, bro. Iāve been following his journey for such a long time, modeling myself, my poetry, after his. You know, he did the Asian American invasion. Heās the first Asian American who Iāve seen be loud on stage, right? He was homies with Saul Williams, right? Like, they wereā¦ Yeah. You know, theyāre homies, man.
Tony DelaRosa [00:34:31]:
Saul made that movie Slam that features Beau Sia in it and other homies, right? I see them on Instagram talking all the time. But over the years, because of the internet and the work Iāve been doing, and because Iāve kind of put my work out there as well, I think I garnered a level of respect where I want to have dinner with him. Weāre actually going to have an event in November this year togetherāa talk. And to me, thatās going to be like ancestors to descendants. So, to know that Iām part of helping build thatā¦ I know that wasnāt everything, but, like, this is such a critical time to build with each other intergenerationally, you know what Iām saying? People might not know Beau Sia as much as they did back in the day, but that impact has never left me. He has never left the impact on me. So, I always want to reconnect and be like, āYo, Beau Sia.ā
Tony DelaRosa [00:35:18]:
He was one of the pioneers of this work, getting this poetry public-facing, as opposed to just being on the written page. To me, thatās powerful. And I hope he has time for dinner. Thatās my question. Will he have time? You know, everyoneās busy, so I want him to be at the dinner table.
Tony DelaRosa [00:35:35]:
Hopefully, we can grab a drink or whatever, and we can just chop it up about whatās happening today, whatās impacting my community, and the world at large.
Roberto GermƔn [00:35:46]:
Oh, thatās great, man. Thatās great. Wow. Two poets. Two poets at the table. I love it. I love it. Well, for individuals that want to learn more about your work, that want to connect with you, or maybe they simply want to get a copy of Teaching the Invisible Race: Embodying a Pro-Asian American Lens in School, you know, where can they do that?
Tony DelaRosa [00:36:13]:
Yes, you can go to tonydelarosaspeaks.com, and that will populate all the information you need. Tony with a āY,ā tonydelarosaspeaks.com, and youāll see it there. And wherever books are sold. I mean, like, thereās an audio version read by dope actor Tim Lounibos, whoās also Asian American. He was on Star Trek, he was on all these other things. I got really lucky with him reading my book because his voiceālike, Roberto, your voice was beautiful reading the poem, probably better than his, Iāll be honest with you, because youāre a poetābut the way he read it, he has kind of a deep voice as well.
Tony DelaRosa [00:36:51]:
And itās just so clear and crisp. So, thereās the audio, and then like, thereās Kindle. Itās wherever books are sold. At this point, I would say, if you can go and support local bookstores, please do so. Or if you want to go directly to me, email me at [email protected] and we can work something out where you can get a personalized signed copy of this, and we can figure out how delivery works. But other than that, thatās where Iām at. Iām on IG and X. I donāt have time for other platforms right now. Parents, we know this.
Roberto GermƔn [00:37:26]:
We know!
Tony DelaRosa [00:37:27]:
But if you want to get on IG or X (formerly Twitter), you can hit me up. Iām pretty accessible. I try to reach out to people because I know this work needs to be as accessible as possible.
Roberto GermƔn [00:37:39]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto GermƔn.
