Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to, what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and Our Classroom is officially in session. Welcome to Our Classroom. I'm here with Traci Huahn, who writes books for kids and especially love stories rooted in asian american culture, history, and identity. So we got a treat for you today. We're going to be talking about her debut book coming out soon.
Roberto Germán [00:00:45]:
Mamie Tate Fights to go to School, her debut picture book based on a real story. Folks, this is a treat for you. I've already read the book. All right, so I'm ahead of the game, but we gon loop y'all in. Y'all gotta grab a copy because we have to amplify these stories. And as a former attorney and the daughter of chinese immigrants, Traci feels a deep connection to Mamie's story and hopes it will inspire young readers to become change makers, even if it starts by taking one small step. I'm not a young reader, but I am a reader, and I feel inspired by this book. It didn't end the way I thought it would end, I'm not gonna lie.
Roberto Germán [00:01:33]:
But I have a great appreciation for authentic stories, because when I go to a movie and it has a picture perfect ending, I'm like, ah, that's not real life. And so I got to the end of the book, and I was like, oh, they let me not give it away. I'm pause. That was just a hook for y'all. That's a hook for y'all. You gotta read it on your own. Traci, welcome to Our Classroom.
Traci Huahn [00:01:56]:
Thank you so much, Roberto. I'm so happy to be here, and I really applaud the work you guys are doing. Multicultural Classroom, and it's really a great, great honor to be here. So thank you.
Roberto Germán [00:02:09]:
Well, thank you. And we're going to go ahead and jump into this talk about your debut picture book. Mamie Tate fights to go to school, which is based on his true story. But who is it written for?
Traci Huahn [00:02:21]:
So it's really written for young kids, you know, for children ages four to eight. But I do hope, you know, that it's also a book for everyone. You know, I really hope kids of all ages and the adults that are in their lives, whether that's, you know, teachers or librarians, the parents, the caregivers, you know, anybody, that they'll read this book and be inspired by this story and learn something new that they haven't, you know, this is not a very well known piece of history. And I did want to add that, you know, even though this story does tackle a serious topic, you know, we're talking about racial discrimination here and segregation. It's really accessible to young kids. And so, you know, there's a few moments of levity sprinkled throughout it. And then for older kids and even adults, I think it's a good entry point, you know, to this history to just kind of encourage them maybe to learn a little bit more and dig a little deeper.
Roberto Germán [00:03:21]:
Absolutely. So it centers around chinese immigration, but it's for everybody. And everybody should tune into this story, should tune into the discrimination it addresses, should tune into immigration stories. Right. Because this is a country full of immigrants. Whether folks want to acknowledge that or not, it's truth, it's a fact. Right. And that legacy of immigration is core to who we are as a nation.
Roberto Germán [00:03:57]:
And so I want to talk about the opening line. A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step. How has Mamie Tape's story inspired you to take a single step in your own journey?
Traci Huahn [00:04:14]:
Yeah, that's, that's a great question. I love that because Mamie Tape really did inspire me on my journey to becoming an author. You know, I'm, as you mentioned, I'm a former lawyer, and I learned about Mamie Tape when I was doing some research on asian american civil rights cases. And I was really surprised. You know, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area, you know, where all these events took place. And, like, Mamie, I'm the daughter of chinese immigrants, but I had never heard this story. I did not know this history. And so it really, like, stuck in me.
Traci Huahn [00:04:50]:
Like, how did I not know this? And, you know, if I don't know it, a lot of other people might not know it. And so, you know, but at that time, I wasn't actually writing children's books. I was, you know, I'd always actually wanted to write children's books ever since I was a kid myself. You know, I've always loved writing, but, you know, and I studied journalism in college, but then I went on to law school. I became a lawyer. But still, in the back of my mind, I was always thinking, one day I'm going to write children's book, you know, one day, one day, one day. But I was just this, like, dream. And so, but when the pandemic hit, you know, I had this really an aha.
Traci Huahn [00:05:29]:
Moment where, you know, life is short and I should, you know, maybe it was time to take that brave step and to follow my dreams. So I started taking some writing classes, and it really brought me back to Mamie Tape and this story that had really stuck in me, and, you know, it was during the big rise in anti asian hate, and so that also, you know, really compelled me to want to tell this story.
Roberto Germán [00:05:58]:
The pandemic really pushed people to pivot. You know, it's. It's amazing all the different stories I've heard from folks in terms of switching careers or starting something new or picking up new hobbies or pursuing something that was, in their mind a dream or a passion. And so while. While the pandemic brought about some negatives, it certainly also brought about some positives, including pushing you to finally write your book. And in this day and age of book bands, did you feel any type of apprehension in writing a book that addresses racial discrimination?
Traci Huahn [00:06:42]:
Oh, yeah. And I still sometimes have a little apprehension, but, you know, that also gave me even more reason to write it. You know, and I know you can relate to this. It's like, it's so important to teach kids truthful history, right? And this is. This book is, like, my one small effort to contribute to that. And, you know, we can't let the people who are trying to censor us scare us into censoring ourselves. Right. You know, we need to keep telling our stories and doing whatever we can to make sure that they're heard.
Roberto Germán [00:07:18]:
Fear is a paralyzer. And thank you for your honesty in terms of saying, like, yes, you did, and sometimes do feel some apprehension and yet still pushing forward. I think it's important for us to be honest about the emotions that we wrestle with when trying to navigate some of these tensions in our country. In this case, we're talking about racial tension, but nonetheless, the importance of persevering. And I'm wondering how you envision your book being utilized in learning spaces, because I can see how it can be utilized in a number of different ways. And I'm encouraged that you wrote this, but tell me what's on your mind in terms of how you envision it being utilized in different learning spaces.
Traci Huahn [00:08:08]:
Yeah. So I actually do have an educator's guide available for free on my website. And so, you know, it's a tool to help people engage in some deeper learning with the book and its themes. And kind of, you know, you kind of talked about this at the beginning, you know? You know, and it's not just, like, asian american history, but this is really a part of our country's history.
Roberto Germán [00:08:32]:
Right? Our history. It's my history. As much as it is yours, right?
Traci Huahn [00:08:36]:
Yeah, it's all of our history. And so I, you know, it's a, it's a guide to really tackle that. You know, of course, the wider themes, prejudice and racism, but also, like courage and determination. And so it offers a lot of discussion questions to help engage kids in some meaningful conversations. There's some activities that they can do also ways to inspire them to be change makers, too, in their own lives. And a few touch points for further learning, like about the chinese exclusion act and a few cultural traditions. And then, of course, the long fight for school desegregation. So one thing I'm really hoping is that educators will use this book not only to teach about Mamie's case, but to put it within the context of the long fight against school segregation and teach it along stories of other young changemakers.
Traci Huahn [00:09:34]:
We have Roberto Alvarez, 1931. That was, I believe, the first successful desegregation case. It was limited to a school district in San Diego, but, you know, he was twelve years old. And of course, Sylvia Mendez, she desegregated schools in California, also eight years old. Like Mamie Tape and Linda Brown. You know, of course, Brown versus the board of education. Right. 1954, desegregating schools nationwide.
Traci Huahn [00:10:06]:
And like Ruby Bridges. Right. Six years old. You know, even though schools had been, you know, weren't allowed to be legally segregated, but they still weren't being integrated. And so, you know, I really think it's important for kids to see that, you know, people of many different backgrounds have all been part of this long fight and how it's really been a collective effort of so many people and, you know, unfortunately, over many, many years. But, but also to see that, you know, these are kids, that, that kids can be powerful change makers, too.
Roberto Germán [00:10:40]:
Yeah. Right. So you're not too young to be an advocate and you're not too young to be an ally. And those are both themes that surface in your book also.
Traci Huahn [00:10:50]:
Absolutely.
Roberto Germán [00:10:51]:
There was quite a bit of research done prior to writing this book. Can you describe the research process and some of the most enlightening moments that you experienced?
Traci Huahn [00:11:01]:
Yeah, there was a lot of research. You know, it may surprise some people. Right. It's like a picture book. It's like less than a thousand words, but there's a lot that that goes into that. And so I started with what I know, which is the legal research. Right. Mamie Tape's actual case, which was a California Supreme Court case, Tate v.
Traci Huahn [00:11:22]:
Hurley, and then the legal documents filed in her case, I actually went to the California State archives and got was able to check out, you know, the actual documents from 1885.
Roberto Germán [00:11:35]:
Wow, that's amazing.
Traci Huahn [00:11:38]:
You sit at this desk. You have to put all your belongings away. You're not allowed to, like, have a pen or pencil because they don't want you to, like, mess anything up. But that was really cool. These are the actual papers that people actually filed. And there's also a recorded interview of Mamie Tape from 1972. And that's when she was 96 years old. So it was really close to actually before she passed away.
Traci Huahn [00:12:03]:
So her memories had faded a lot by then, but that was still a really great way to enrich the story. I was also really lucky that I got to meet some of Mamie's relatives. She has her oldest great granddaughter who is up in Portland, and I met with her, and she had actually lived with Mamie for a time when she was growing up. But I'll say one of the biggest sources of information actually came from newspapers. This was a widely reported case at the time. In 1880, 418 85. There were a lot of newspaper articles, and even though the Chinese Exclusion act was 1882, so this is all during that time. So even though there was a lot of anti chinese bias in the reporting, but these were still the closest bits of information to what actually happened.
Traci Huahn [00:13:01]:
And so something that really jumped out at me is how much of a one step forward, two steps back processes was, which I think, you know, that is what we see right in these fights for justice, you know? And so that's kind of something I really wanted to convey in the story as far as a couple enlightening moments. You know, like I said, this was during the pandemic, a lot of anti asian hate. And, you know, it was actually really surreal to read these papers from the 1880s and how closely they paralleled what was happening in real time, you know, even some of the words that were being used, you know, about telling chinese people to go back to where they came from and how they were spreading filth and disease. It was really, like, depressing to see, like, okay, like, not that much has changed. But again, that kind of was a motivating factor, too, of, like, you know, this is why we need to keep telling our stories. And then I'll say, like, from the Mamie tabes interview, you know, it was really cool to be able to hear her actual voice, you know, even though she's, like, 96 years old now. But, you know, the little bits of things she did share did help enrich the story, like I said. And also, you really could get the sense from her, how much of an independent minded person she really was.
Traci Huahn [00:14:36]:
So I could kind of see how at eight years old, she would have had that ability to do that because not all of us could have.
Roberto Germán [00:14:44]:
What an amazing opportunity to be able to connect with her, learn from her, hear from her directly. I wonder what surfaces for you when you hear the excerpt from your book. Before I could reach the door, the principal stopped me. Your kind is not welcome here.
Traci Huahn [00:15:06]:
Yeah. So that, that really brings me back to, you know, all the moments in my life where I have felt unwelcome or out of place, you know, because of how I look and who I am. And the line of text that comes right after that is I felt like the ground had slipped out from under me, just like my first time roller skating. And that really comes back to, as I was riding this and I really started, like I would close my eyes and really think about what was I feeling in those kinds of moments. And to me, it's like this disorienting, sorry, disorienting feeling of being somewhere where you think you belong and then, but others are treating you differently, you know, even though they may know nothing about you. Or maybe sometimes it's even people you thought were your friends. Right. And as an adult, you know, I think sadly, many of us come to expect that in some spaces.
Traci Huahn [00:16:13]:
That's why what we may encounter. But, you know, like when you're a kid and that happens for the very first time, it's like your whole world is being flipped upside down. Right. And so that was kind of what I was trying to convey, you know, when I was writing that and sort of what, what comes up for me.
Roberto Germán [00:16:36]:
Well, let's, let's stay there. Here's another excerpt for you to react to later. I thought about all those years chinese children couldn't go to school at all because of the steps I'd taken. There was now one public school where we were welcomed. This time no one could shut it down.
Traci Huahn [00:17:02]:
Yeah. So for me, it kind of really goes to the heart of what I hope readers will take away from this book is, you know, even though things didn't turn out quite, you know, as expected, but, and even though change, you know, positive change often comes very, very, very slowly, you know, change is gradual, progress is gradual. Yeah. But every little step counts, you know, so I think we need to keep taking those steps. We need to keep moving ourselves forward. And so I think, you know, still having that pride in what she did accomplish, in that her steps did make a difference.
Roberto Germán [00:17:47]:
Absolutely. Talk to me about the illustrations in your book, what were some of the most significant elements you wanted your illustrator, Michelle Jing Chan, to capture?
Traci Huahn [00:18:02]:
Yeah. So, okay, so a funny thing about picture books in the world of traditional publishing is that the author and illustrator actually do not normally communicate with each other during the process. So the illustrator, you know, as was the case with my book, is hired by the publisher, and the illustrator works with an art director to decide the look and feel of the art, what scenes to depict, and then the authorities, me, you know, it works with an editor to really focus on the text and any changes we want to make there. And so. So that is how this book and the art was done. But. But I will say that because of the historic aspect and because I love research, I tend to go down maybe a little more than I need to sometimes. But, you know, I did put together a very thick document of visual research, and so it had all kinds of descriptions of different things, old photos, so just of all, you know, as what was happening in the story.
Traci Huahn [00:19:10]:
And so that is a way I did contribute, and that really helped with the historical accuracy. So once sketches were finalized, I did get to see those and provide some comments, but again, my feedback was mostly related to the historic details.
Roberto Germán [00:19:26]:
Okay, wonderful. So, in the author's note, you mentioned a journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and originates from a chinese proverb most commonly attributed to the philosopher Laozi. I don't know if I pronounced that Lao Tzu. Lao tzu, yeah.
Traci Huahn [00:19:48]:
Great.
Roberto Germán [00:19:49]:
Between the fourth and fifth centuries BCE. So, as it relates and thinking about Mamie's journey, but with that of countless others, as stated here in your quote. Right. You say to me, it pointly sums up not only Mamie's journey, but that of countless others who have fought and continue to fight for equality. As it relates to equality, what fight is on your heart and mind these days?
Traci Huahn [00:20:18]:
Well, you know, I think even though a lot of progress has been made, really, the fight for equality and education here in the United States is still ongoing. You know, there's no legally mandated school segregation, but there's still a lot of geographic segregation, and that's resulted in a lot of inequities in terms of school funding, the quality of education. Right. And based on different socioeconomic demographics. And so there's still so many gaps. And, of course, right. I mean, this is like, the work you guys are doing, too, right? Is that. That there's not enough representation of the full spectrum of histories and cultures that are part of our country.
Traci Huahn [00:21:08]:
So despite, you know, but despite, like, the pushback in a lot of places and, you know, like, book bans that we were kind of mentioning, I will say I am glad to see that in some places, you know, we are beginning to see the inclusion of more BIPOC histories. Right. African american history, AAPI history. And so I'm very encouraged that we're seeing that in some places. And that, again, step by step. Right. Change is happening. And so I'm happy that, like, that my book is, like, a one little thing that can help fill some of that gap, too, you know.
Traci Huahn [00:21:49]:
Right. Like, bring Mamie Tape's story, be another contributor to a wider audience and as a teaching tool to get these stories out there.
Roberto Germán [00:21:59]:
Thank you for sharing that. If you had an opportunity to have lunch with anybody, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Traci Huahn [00:22:09]:
Yeah, well, maybe it's not surprising, but I'd actually. I'd love to have lunch with Mamie Tape. You know, I'd want to ask her all the questions. I'd have to. I'd have to write another book, probably just find out really what was going through her mind, you know, get a little bit more into what that experience was like and how that kind of influenced her in her later life, you know, what, having gone through that experience.
Roberto Germán [00:22:41]:
And so as we prepare to wrap up, what's the message of encouragement that you want to offer to our audience?
Traci Huahn [00:22:50]:
Yeah, I think, you know, it's kind of relating to back to things we've talked about. But, you know, I'd say, like, whatever hurdles and setbacks you might experience in your life, you know, whether it's related to something really big, like you're fighting for a cause or something small, like you're just trying to get through your day to day, you know, keep moving forward. I'd say, you know, be brave, keep taking those small steps, because that's what it is. Step by step.
Roberto Germán [00:23:20]:
Anything that you want to share that's on the horizon for you. Workshops or publications. Ding, ding, ding. I think you have something on the way.
Traci Huahn [00:23:32]:
Yes. Well, the book we've been talking about here, Mamie Tape fights to go to school, will be available beginning May 7, available wherever books are sold. And I hope you will go grab yourself a copy, check it out of your library, and if you don't find it at your library, request it. Yeah. So thank you so much.
Roberto Germán [00:23:58]:
And who's the publisher?
Traci Huahn [00:24:00]:
This is crown books for young readers.
Roberto Germán [00:24:03]:
There you have it, folks. Go check it out. Please. Look up Traci. You could follow her on Instagram at Traci Huahn. Go to the website tracihuahn.com and purchase the book. All right, Mamie Tape Fights to go to School. Get it into the schools, share it with children, share it in different learning spaces, and let's keep the dialogue going.
Roberto Germán [00:24:32]:
Traci, it's been wonderful to have you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you for utilizing your voice, your research in your writing to address racial discrimination. Something that sometimes make people uncomfortable, right? But important, extremely important, that we wrestle with that discomfort, that we push and fight the resistance to address these type of issues, and that we do it as a united front. Because your history is my history. It is our history. It's a shared history.
Roberto Germán [00:25:07]:
Let's embrace it. Thank you.
Traci Huahn [00:25:08]:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here, and thank you for all the important work done that you're doing.
Roberto Germán [00:25:15]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
