Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to, what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Robelto Germán, and Our Classroom is officially in session. Lee and Low is the largest and most trusted multicultural children's book publisher in the US. A family run, independent and certified 100% minority owned business enterprise, Lee and Low produces high quality books about everyone for everyone, along with free educator resources to make meaningful use of each book in today's classroom. Email [email protected] today to start building a custom collection tailored to to your unique needs, goals and budget.
Roberto Germán [00:01:07]:
Peace, everybody. Roberto Germán here with Lorena to talk about Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy. And we're gonna go ahead and dive right in. What's up, Lorena? How you feeling?
Lorena Germán [00:01:16]:
Hey. Hey. I'm feeling good.
Roberto Germán [00:01:19]:
Excellent. Well, let's get started. Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, CSP.
Lorena Germán [00:01:26]:
What is it? Um, good question. Good place to begin, right? To clarify for folks. So CSP is, um, a stance. It is a theory, if you will, um, forwarded by Dr. Django Paris, who later co authored the book about it with Dr. Samy Alim. And essentially what they want to argue is that schools need to go beyond being culturally relevant, beyond being. Being culturally responsive, into being culturally sustaining. And they do a really good job in their first chapter of breaking down what that even means. But, you know, in shore, I think one way for us to think about it is that this is a stance, a belief that education should be about restoration, and it should undo the harm that schooling has done for the purpose of positive social transformation.
Lorena Germán [00:02:26]:
Right. That it should be a pluralist project, a project that is about diversity, both like linguistic and cultural, like all forms of diversity, and a place where students can really be who they are.
Roberto Germán [00:02:46]:
Well, beans. So basically, CSP is standing on business.
Lorena Germán [00:02:50]:
Yes, I suppose.
Roberto Germán [00:02:53]:
How do you walk a staff or faculty through the process of understanding Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy?
Lorena Germán [00:02:59]:
Yeah, it's important for us to talk about this because I think there's a lot of PD out there. There's a lot of folks who will come into a school and say that they're doing CSP work. It might even be. Be doing elements of it. But the thing about CSP and all of these theories, really, is that they are not to be stored in a book. They are not to be kept in an intellectual realm. What I mean is, is that they are all meant to be acted upon. You're supposed to do something with this.
Lorena Germán [00:03:34]:
And so I say that, because then.
Roberto Germán [00:03:36]:
On business, yes, you're gonna have to.
Lorena Germán [00:03:38]:
Explain what that means to us. But what I mean by that is, like, PD or whatever school support that talks about CSP but doesn't actually provide folks with methods of application is incomplete. And so when I'm working with a staff, when I'm working with a department, whatever it might be, I do start with the personal. Right? Like, who is the individual? Who are you? Who is walking into this room? Who are you bringing with you? You know, what business are you standing, for example? What business are you standing on? And then we have to think about what it looks like to enact this in your specific context. And so there's a lot of reflection exercises that I do with folks, and then as soon as we can, we get into what it looks like in your content area, what it looks like in your practice with really, like, hands on exercises and ideas and lessons and strategies so that people feel equipped. You know, that as you know which we talk about, our goal is to answer the question, what's our goal? What's the question that we want to.
Roberto Germán [00:04:51]:
Answer us or culture pedagogy?
Lorena Germán [00:04:56]:
Us? Multicultural classroom quiz. Pop quiz.
Roberto Germán [00:05:00]:
What is the question?
Lorena Germán [00:05:01]:
Oh, my goodness. We often are working to answer, what does this look like tomorrow morning at 830?
Roberto Germán [00:05:08]:
Oh, yeah, of course. It's late.
Lorena Germán [00:05:11]:
All right. So.
Roberto Germán [00:05:13]:
Right. Practical strategies that teachers could implement.
Lorena Germán [00:05:18]:
Yes.
Roberto Germán [00:05:20]:
Without having to work through pages and pages and pages of theory.
Lorena Germán [00:05:27]:
And even if we do have to work through some pages, again, what does this look like in action? Taking theory, moving it to practice. So, like, immediate application in some form or fashion. And so that's kind of how I walk folks through it. Typically, I'm design. I'm co designing with whoever they have on staff that is leading some of this, and we tailor it to meet their needs based on what they've learned already, what they've covered. And then I try to keep a healthy balance of understanding and theory and study and analysis and practice.
Roberto Germán [00:06:05]:
Yeah, I like the word sustaining. Right. Because you're thinking about keeping something going, supporting something, extending something. Right. Not just a one and done thing or always shifting gears, but really working towards sustaining, continuing enriching, and the fact that CSP is a stance. Right. When we say stand on business, and King Harris gets a lot of props for popularizing the phrase. King Harris is Ti's son.
Roberto Germán [00:06:45]:
He's an interesting character, but nonetheless, there was a viral moment in which he was talking about standing on business. So when we're thinking about the notion of standing on business, we're talking about really handling your responsibilities, putting your money where your mouth is, taking a stance such as Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy. And so it's a challenge. Right. It's challenge for institutions to take any type of stance, including CSP. So what are some ways to institutionalize Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy at an organization or a school?
Lorena Germán [00:07:29]:
Yeah, that's important, man. Institutionalizing this type of work is an answer to a lot of problems. But anyway, the question how do you do it? How do you institutionalize CSP wherever you are? Definitely this requires that leadership develop a solid grasp of this. So whether it's a school administrator or a department chair, like whoever it is that is that's going to be leading this work has to have a general understanding of what CSP is so that it's part of their value system and it is part of their approach to whatever it is they're doing. And then I also think it's important to institutionalize in some really specific ways, like adding some of this stuff to the agenda. And I know that that sounds real basic, but, like, unless you make space and time for it, it's not gonna simply, it's not gonna simply show up. Right. And so adding for the things that.
Roberto Germán [00:08:35]:
You make time for the things that you value.
Lorena Germán [00:08:37]:
Exactly. And so adding that to the agenda, including CSP content in every staff meeting, somehow including it in this, in the process for developing, whether it's a mission or a vision or a goal. So institutionalizing means taking these ideas, thinking of CSP, and embedding it into everything we already do. So let's say that a principal has a monthly newsletter. Well, add a little section in your newsletter that has to do with CSP. Maybe you're highlighting what are examples of CSP in this school, or maybe you're including a quote about something that you're reading. Right. And so in that way, this doesn't depend on an individual, but it becomes part of the institution.
Lorena Germán [00:09:24]:
So that if that department chair has to leave to a new job or that principal is gone, that work can continue and it doesn't depend on an individual.
Roberto Germán [00:09:34]:
Yeah, that's important. We want to make sure that there are. Right. Any, any school should always be looking at how do I implement the most effective systems that are going to help sustain. Is that word again?
Lorena Germán [00:09:50]:
Yep.
Roberto Germán [00:09:51]:
Sustain our school. And so something to consider is how, how important is it to make Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy accessible? And what are some practical exercises that you do when working with institutions, organizations to lead them through this?
Lorena Germán [00:10:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. Making it accessible, I think, is another way of saying moving this from theory into practice. Or at least that's the way I see it, because I think something that becomes practice is now accessible. And so there are certain exercises, like some. Some basic things, like, for example, you know, taking. So there's an exercise I've been doing with a couple of places that I've been working with that I think has been really helpful, and I'm going to share it, and hopefully folks can listen in and try it out. But one of the things I've been.
Roberto Germán [00:10:47]:
Doing is they could try it out, but they could also reach out, collaborate with Multicultural Classrooms.
Lorena Germán [00:10:54]:
Right. So that they can do it effectively. Yes, but one of the things I've been doing is creating a series of. Or. Yeah, yeah. Creating, like, whatever pieces of paper, whatever you want, index cards that have all kinds of common scenarios at schools. And. And then, you know, in a small group, educators or whoever the participants are, have to sort those activities into or encounters or scenarios into a CSP column and a non CSP column.
Lorena Germán [00:11:26]:
And so what that does is it allows the participants, with their understanding of CSP, to use it as a framework and kind of evaluate and assess in a non threatening scenario. Right. So instead of me being in the real life situation, I get to practice with my colleagues, and we can all kind of brainstorm together and walk through each scenario and discuss, well, why wouldn't this be CSP? Well, why is this an example of CSP? This looks like it's CSP, right? And so they can kind of have that discussion, and then usually I'll go around and share results. And that way we go through every scenario and discuss and debrief what makes these examples of a culturally sustaining practice or not. And that's just one way that I've been working with schools and orgs to kind of, like, think of this really concretely so that it doesn't stay, again, in that intellectual space, but that we can internalize it, embody it, identify it, and then hopefully in our practice, we'll be like, wait a minute, this is CSP, or this is not CSP. I need to change this and check it, you know?
Roberto Germán [00:12:41]:
Yeah. Do you think schools need to start with Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, or should they start elsewhere? Like, what do schools have to be in order to grasp culturally sustained pedagogy and engage in this work with you?
Lorena Germán [00:12:53]:
Right. That's. That's good. Um, I I mean, first of all, if. If a school hasn't done any work, they're late. So there's that. Uh. But if a school is like, yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:13:08]:
Well, better late than never.
Lorena Germán [00:13:10]:
Correct. That's what I was about to say. Right. So if a school. So, yeah, like, even if you're late, like, just, let's go get on the train. But, you know, let's say a school. I mean, I guess one way to answer that is, I think understanding CSP, getting the basics down, is really important. Like, you need to understand this stance.
Lorena Germán [00:13:28]:
You need to understand what it means to be culturally sustaining. What am I trying to sustain? What am I. What am I trying to do? Then we can talk about how to do it. So I think schools do, and that's why I was saying leaders need to do some basic understanding and training to kind of get it, and it's not hard to get. And then it's like, okay, well, how. What does it look like for me to be a CSP leader? And then, you know, culturally sustaining leader? And then how am I going to share this with my staff? How can I institutionalize this at our program? And what am I going to bring to them? You know? And that has to be unique. Like, are there some general practices? Always. But what one, you know, what one particular principle, let's say a black woman principle, can do in the middle of Harlem is not the same thing that another principal can do in rural Oklahoma.
Lorena Germán [00:14:26]:
Right. So, like, it's going to look and be different.
Roberto Germán [00:14:30]:
Yeah. Each school has their own unique identity. Each school has their own set of.
Lorena Germán [00:14:36]:
Challenges and demographics and values and needs. Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:14:42]:
Right. So it would make sense that it's going to feel different for, you know, various spaces. Well, hey, that. That's. That's a good intro to culturally sustaining pedagogies and just really wanted to give the people a taste. Right. For those that are not aware or for those that, you know, maybe they have some awareness, but needed to hear a bit more detail about Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, how it's implemented, what it is, the fact that it's a stance, the fact that we standing on business and. And different ways that go about in leading this work and engaging, collaborating with schools to implement this approach, this stance.
Roberto Germán [00:15:37]:
Any. Any final words before we conclude here?
Lorena Germán [00:15:42]:
Yeah. Yeah, CSP. For those that haven't read Textured Teaching, CSP is where I begin with that book, you know, and I just want to mention it because.
Roberto Germán [00:15:55]:
Yeah, shout out to Django, Dr. Paris, Dr. Samy Alim. Shout out to them.
Lorena Germán [00:16:03]:
Yeah, I mentioned this because part of making this work accessible is breaking it down in a way that is easy to consume. To understand. And so that's what I try to do with textured teaching. I explain very briefly what CSP is, but then I spend the entire rest of the book talking about how to do it. How can I teach in my content area in a way that is culturally sustaining? What are some examples? What are some strategies? Like, what is the method of application? And so that's what Textured Teaching is, right? And so ideally, as a school, for example, or as an organization, your leadership will be like, okay, let me figure out what this concept is. And then it's like, okay, well, let me share this concept with my staff, but then I have to provide them with concrete examples of how to do this. And that's where, that's where Textured Teaching comes in. And there's other books, too, right, that start with or are grounded in CSP.
Lorena Germán [00:17:07]:
So. But I mean, the only one I can that I know well enough is Textured Teaching. So that's why I can talk about it. But I also have the Textured Teaching.
Roberto Germán [00:17:16]:
Units that are coming down the line that I think are going to be extremely resourceful for educators and others.
Lorena Germán [00:17:24]:
Shout out to all the writers that are going to be working on that project. It's a lot of them.
Roberto Germán [00:17:29]:
All right, now you're getting excited. Cause now you like all talking over me and everything. I know this is probably a good place for us to wrap this up.
Lorena Germán [00:17:38]:
Oh my goodness.
Roberto Germán [00:17:39]:
Before I get HR involved, are you.
Lorena Germán [00:17:41]:
Gonna ban me again? I just got excited. I don't know.
Roberto Germán [00:17:45]:
I might let you come on for one more episode before we pivot.
Lorena Germán [00:17:49]:
Oh my, oh my.
Roberto Germán [00:17:52]:
HR should be back from vacation by then.
Lorena Germán [00:17:55]:
Been a long vacation indeed.
Roberto Germán [00:17:57]:
Indeed. We're very generous with our vacation time at Multicultural Classroom.
Lorena Germán [00:18:01]:
I see that.
Roberto Germán [00:18:02]:
Hey peeps, thanks for engaging. We appreciate y'all. You already know. Share this episode. Reach out to us if you have questions. If you want to collaborate and want support in terms of implementing Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, right. Implementing that stance or really building off of textured teaching if your teachers already engaged with it. If they're not, they should be, you already know.
Roberto Germán [00:18:29]:
But if they are, and you want.
Roberto Germán [00:18:32]:
A little more support with that, feel.
Roberto Germán [00:18:35]:
Free to reach out to us at Multicultural Classroom. We appreciate y'all, and we'll catch you the next time.
Lorena Germán [00:18:40]:
Bye.
Roberto Germán [00:18:43]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
